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Thread: S&W 1911

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by WillBrink View Post
    Depends on who you ask. Some are in favor of them (as long as the design is robust) and some will not use any 1911 with them. They are designed to prevent the firing pin from moving unless trigger is pulled. Colt had the series 80 safety. S&W seems to use something of their own design that is "Schwart like" but not identical. Unlike Kimber, S&Ws internal safety has been very reliable.

    On a 1911 without them, if you drop it barrel down at the right angle from a high enough distance, the mass of the firing pin is enough to make it strike the primer, and boom. Rare, but it has happened.

    Springfield has solved the problem in an uber simple way: titanium pin with stiffer spring, no boom when gun is dropped straight down on the barrel from X height, which make purists happy with improved safety without adding additional parts that could fail.

    I'm not a gun smith or engineer, so that's getting to the limits of my knowledge on that topic.

    Read articles by Yam et al for much more details and far greater depth of knowledge.

    A good summary. The Springfield solution as you note is considered "acceptable" (in the sense of reliability) in a duty gun by a lot of the 1911 guru types that I am aware of. The large majority of them that I am aware of do not like the Schwartz/Series-80 family of firing pin safeties, and will not buy a gun that uses them. That does not mean that the S&W pistols are bad, it's just that for whatever reasons, a large majority of the pro 1911-type users do not seem to favor them. If you hang out for long on forums like http://forums.1911forum.com and http://forum.m1911.org/, you realize that this safety configuration is not in great favor. If you go into the general or gunsmithing areas there and ask some of the experts WHY, they'll fill you in with all the details.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by maximus83 View Post
    A good summary. The Springfield solution as you note is considered "acceptable" (in the sense of reliability) in a duty gun by a lot of the 1911 guru types that I am aware of. The large majority of them that I am aware of do not like the Schwartz/Series-80 family of firing pin safeties, and will not buy a gun that uses them. That does not mean that the S&W pistols are bad, it's just that for whatever reasons, a large majority of the pro 1911-type users do not seem to favor them. If you hang out for long on forums like http://forums.1911forum.com and http://forum.m1911.org/, you realize that this safety configuration is not in great favor. If you go into the general or gunsmithing areas there and ask some of the experts WHY, they'll fill you in with all the details.
    I do know S&W made a model using the Ti pin/stiffer spring set up for a time, but I don't know if they have any plans for making that a choice and or change to future guns.
    - Will

    General Performance/Fitness Advice for all

    www.BrinkZone.com


    “Those who do not view armed self defense as a basic human right, ignore the mass graves of those who died on their knees at the hands of tyrants.”

  3. #13
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    I want to like the S&W 1911's but won't buy a 1911 with a Schwartz safety. People who have more rounds through the S&W standard 1911's than me say they external extractor is not great for high round counts pistols because of it's size and location. But that the external extractors on the performance series S&W 1911's are better.

  4. #14
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    Seems like the titanium firing pin versions of the S&W 1911s are hitting the market...

    http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=194468878

    At $800 these seem like a great base gun. It does away with the major criticism of the S&Ws (the Schwartz safety). Comes in Melonite from the factory...

    Anyone get some trigger time on one yet?



    SW1911 TFP
    Last edited by JSGlock34; 10-11-10 at 16:53.

  5. #15
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    I got a S&W 1911. The Schwartz firing pin safety mechanism is relatively easy to remove. I took mine out of my pistol. As far as the external extractor goes, I'll wait and see. I've read Hilton Yams views on the 10-8 forums. Maybe S&W will upgrade their standard 1911's with the Performance Center Extractors. I don't know what it is about extractors for 1911s. No matter who makes them, they eventually need to be tweaked at some point. Even M4's need the extractor and spring assy. replaced at specific intervals. Hopefully S&W will upgrade their standard 1911s with the Performance Center extractor assy. If not, maybe someone else will make a improved extractor and spring assy. Over all I'm happy with my pistol and feel confident in it.

  6. #16
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    Well call me a purist.

    I am interested in how the new S&W works without the firing pin safety. That, along with the Melonite finish may yield a winning combination if the external extractor holds up.

    There are different rumors on why S&W went with the external extractor in their version. Some say it was because of reliability while others say it is for manufacturing costs. While purely speculationg, I believe it was the latter because S&W has a lot of experience with the external extractor on their previous models. The issue I see is that the internal extractor is far more popular than the external. This limits your options if the gun starts acting up which means that you will have to find a gunsmith that knows and understands the S&W design or send it off to the factory.

    I have had no personal experience with the 1911 version of their extractor but I currently own a 745 and 39. Both are range toys and both have had far more failures to extract than any internal extractor based 1911 I have ever owned.
    "The sword is more important than the shield, and skill is more important than either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental." John Steinbeck

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