Think Ammo is Expensive NOW!!

[AMMOTECH]

"For example, would have to shut down and evacuate a factory when a thunderstorm approached and not be allowed within 50 feet of any ammunition without first being searched for matches or lighters.

I been putting up with these rules for then last 19 years.
As a bussiness I can see where this would cost them plenty of $$$. It cost us lost man hours and production numbers. Spring and summer are the worst times.


"Would this make it impossible for UPS, Fedex, etc to ship ammo? Dont most gunshops even get their reloading supplies and ammo through common carriers?"
The U.S. Gov. gets some of it's ammo delivered thru FEDX also.


Time to order a "lot" more....

[Lumpy196]

Ive said it before, I'll say it again. Legislation from the congress is not what will be ultimately used to destroy the 2nd Amendment. The Treasury Department and presidential executive orders will however, with little or no recourse.

[VA_Dinger]

Simply amazing.

[Hawkeye]

Ive said it before, I'll say it again. Legislation from the congress is not what will be ultimately used to destroy the 2nd Amendment. The Treasury Department and presidential executive orders will however, with little or no recourse.

We truly are running out of options. We have written, called, faxed, and emailed elected officials. We have petitioned the govt. We have done everything possible under the law to redress our grievances with the govt. All for naught it steadily appears. ATF and other agencies seem to have complete freedom to interpret and make law as they wish. Congress not only sits silently by, the majority want to further diminish our rights and freedoms.
A Patriot long since gone before us, addressed this very issue once before. His words echo from my heart to my head.

March 23, 1775

Patrick Henry

No man thinks more highly than I do of the patriotism, as well as abilities, of the very worthy gentlemen who have just addressed the house. But different men often see the same subject in different lights; and, therefore, I hope it will not be thought disrespectful to those gentlemen if, entertaining as I do opinions of a character very opposite to theirs, I shall speak forth my sentiments freely and without reserve. This is no time for ceremony. The question before the house is one of awful moment to this country. For my own part, I consider it as nothing less than a question of freedom or slavery; and in proportion to the magnitude of the subject ought to be the freedom of the debate. It is only in this way that we can hope to arrive at the truth, and fulfill the great responsibility which we hold to God and our country. Should I keep back my opinions at such a time, through fear of giving offense, I should consider myself as guilty of treason towards my country, and of an act of disloyalty toward the Majesty of Heaven, which I revere above all earthly kings.

Mr. President, it is natural to man to indulge in the illusions of hope. We are apt to shut our eyes against a painful truth, and listen to the song of that siren till she transforms us into beasts. Is this the part of wise men, engaged in a great and arduous struggle for liberty? Are we disposed to be of the numbers of those who, having eyes, see not, and, having ears, hear not, the things which so nearly concern their temporal salvation? For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth, to know the worst, and to provide for it.

I have but one lamp by which my feet are guided, and that is the lamp of experience. I know of no way of judging of the future but by the past. And judging by the past, I wish to know what there has been in the conduct of the British ministry for the last ten years to justify those hopes with which gentlemen have been pleased to solace themselves and the House. Is it that insidious smile with which our petition has been lately received?

Trust it not, sir; it will prove a snare to your feet. Suffer not yourselves to be betrayed with a kiss. Ask yourselves how this gracious reception of our petition comports with those warlike preparations which cover our waters and darken our land. Are fleets and armies necessary to a work of love and reconciliation? Have we shown ourselves so unwilling to be reconciled that force must be called in to win back our love? Let us not deceive ourselves, sir. These are the implements of war and subjugation; the last arguments to which kings resort. I ask gentlemen, sir, what means this martial array, if its purpose be not to force us to submission? Can gentlement assign any other possible motive for it? Has Great Britain any enemy, in this quarter of the world, to call for all this accumulation of navies and armies? No, sir, she has none. They are meant for us: they can be meant for no other. They are sent over to bind and rivet upon us those chains which the British ministry have been so long forging. And what have we to oppose to them? Shall we try argument? Sir, we have been trying that for the last ten years. Have we anything new to offer upon the subject? Nothing. We have held the subject up in every light of which it is capable; but it has been all in vain. Shall we resort to entreaty and humble supplication? What terms shall we find which have not been already exhausted? Let us not, I beseech you, sir, deceive ourselves. Sir, we have done everything that could be done to avert the storm which is now coming on. We have petitioned; we have remonstrated; we have supplicated; we have prostrated ourselves before the throne, and have implored its interposition to arrest the tyrannical hands of the ministry and Parliament. Our petitions have been slighted; our remonstrances have produced additional violence and insult; our supplications have been disregarded; and we have been spurned, with contempt, from the foot of the throne! In vain, after these things, may we indulge the fond hope of peace and reconciliation.

There is no longer any room for hope. If we wish to be free--if we mean to preserve inviolate those inestimable privileges for which we have been so long contending--if we mean not basely to abandon the noble struggle in which we have been so long engaged, and which we have pledged ourselves never to abandon until the glorious object of our contest shall be obtained--we must fight! I repeat it, sir, we must fight! An appeal to arms and to the God of hosts is all that is left us! They tell us, sir, that we are weak; unable to cope with so formidable an adversary. But when shall we be stronger? Will it be the next week, or the next year? Will it be when we are totally disarmed, and when a British guard shall be stationed in every house? Shall we gather strength but irresolution and inaction? Shall we acquire the means of effectual resistance by lying supinely on our backs and hugging the delusive phantom of hope, until our enemies shall have bound us hand and foot? Sir, we are not weak if we make a proper use of those means which the God of nature hath placed in our power. The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us. Besides, sir, we shall not fight our battles alone. There is a just God who presides over the destinies of nations, and who will raise up friends to fight our battles for us. The battle, sir, is not to the strong alone; it is to the vigilant, the active, the brave. Besides, sir, we have no election. If we were base enough to desire it, it is now too late to retire from the contest. There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! Our chains are forged! Their clanking may be heard on the plains of Boston! The war is inevitable--and let it come! I repeat it, sir, let it come.

It is in vain, sir, to extentuate the matter. Gentlemen may cry, Peace, Peace--but there is no peace. The war is actually begun! The next gale that sweeps from the north will bring to our ears the clash of resounding arms! Our brethren are already in the field! Why stand we here idle? What is it that gentlemen wish? What would they have? Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!

[Rmplstlskn]

<much snipped>
I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!

Death? Not before many of my enemies pass through that "last frontier" first...

Do we have men who can distill our modern petitions like the men of our nation's founding? I can only think of a few...

Rmpl

[Trim2L]

Being the pessimist that I am, I see them giving waivers to the ammo that is being mfg/shipped for the US gov't.

Maybe but OSHA would have to exempt all branches of the armed services, all LE organizations, and all federal and local governments. This theoretically could take place but then they would undermine the enforcement and set themselves up for thousands of discrimination lawsuits.

I don't see this actually happening.

[Nathan_Bell]

Maybe but OSHA would have to exempt all branches of the armed services, all LE organizations, and all federal and local governments. This theoretically could take place but then they would undermine the enforcement and set themselves up for thousands of discrimination lawsuits.

I don't see this actually happening.

Which would take years to work through the courts and do the damage that the anti-gunners want, even if the ruling is overturned.

[trio]

dont load the rifles and head to the rooftops yet guys...

did anyone actually read the federal register and what OSHA is asking?

Issue 4 specifically is asking for public comments as to why small arms ammunition retail sales and storage should be EXEMPT from this rule.....the administrative rule making system and process goes through a lot of this...and from what I can tell the NRA et al. want to expand the time frame for people like wal-mart, VA Arms, etc etc to make a comment to OSHA telling them why you can store ammunition safely....I would also imagine there are a lot of people with a host and multitude of fancy letters after their names writing all kinds of letters discussing the safety of ammunition....

Certainly this poses a threat and danger to ammunition and firearms, but OSHA is seeking reasoning from the industry and public as to what and how these proposed rules should work...

Believe it or not, these administrative rules making endeavors very much take into account what the industries say are practical and what are not....OSHA's goal is not to bankrupt an industry...and it would find it, and its administrative directive, in deep shit if its rulemaking became so strict that the industries that it was supposed to help make safe could not operate....


its certainly something to monitor...its not the end of the world as we know it....

EDIT: In fact, as I give the rule, and the register, a more in depth reading (its 55 pages of legalese), it seems to me this is more a threat to reloaders than users of commercial ammunition

The Register states in Issue #16: "Small Arms Ammunitions are finished consumer products that pose less hazards to employees when compared with most other forms of explosives. There are very small quantities of explosive matter sealed in the ammunition shells which , when inadvertently detonated (except when confined as in the firing chamber of a weapon), do not constitute a substantial projection or mass explosion hazard. Therefore, the safe storage and transportation requirements for small arms ammunition are different from other explosives."

The rule regulates the manner in which ammunition can be stored next to liquid and solid explosives (common sense?) but really seems to put the keibosh on reloading components like powder and primers. Admittedly, I am not a reloader so the quantities they talk about don't have an impact on me one way or the other (i don't know if its a lot or not...sorry)....anyway....i will continue to read...give me a little bit of a break though...I havent read the Federal Register extensively (like on a regular basis) since I left law school....

[Nathan_Bell]

dont load the rifles and head to the rooftops yet guys...

did anyone actually read the federal register and what OSHA is asking?

Issue 4 specifically is asking for public comments as to why small arms ammunition retail sales and storage should be EXEMPT from this rule.....the administrative rule making system and process goes through a lot of this...and from what I can tell the NRA et al. want to expand the time frame for people like wal-mart, VA Arms, etc etc to make a comment to OSHA telling them why you can store ammunition safely....I would also imagine there are a lot of people with a host and multitude of fancy letters after their names writing all kinds of letters discussing the safety of ammunition....

Certainly this poses a threat and danger to ammunition and firearms, but OSHA is seeking reasoning from the industry and public as to what and how these proposed rules should work...

Believe it or not, these administrative rules making endeavors very much take into account what the industries say are practical and what are not....OSHA's goal is not to bankrupt an industry...and it would find it, and its administrative directive, in deep shit if its rulemaking became so strict that the industries that it was supposed to help make safe could not operate....


its certainly something to monitor...its not the end of the world as we know it....

EDIT: In fact, as I give the rule, and the register, a more in depth reading (its 55 pages of legalese), it seems to me this is more a threat to reloaders than users of commercial ammunition

The Register states in Issue #16: "Small Arms Ammunitions are finished consumer products that pose less hazards to employees when compared with most other forms of explosives. There are very small quantities of explosive matter sealed in the ammunition shells which , when inadvertently detonated (except when confined as in the firing chamber of a weapon), do not constitute a substantial projection or mass explosion hazard. Therefore, the safe storage and transportation requirements for small arms ammunition are different from other explosives."

The rule regulates the manner in which ammunition can be stored next to liquid and solid explosives (common sense?) but really seems to put the keibosh on reloading components like powder and primers. Admittedly, I am not a reloader so the quantities they talk about don't have an impact on me one way or the other (i don't know if its a lot or not...sorry)....anyway....i will continue to read...give me a little bit of a break though...I havent read the Federal Register extensively (like on a regular basis) since I left law school....

How do you eat an elephant?

[VA_Dinger]

After thinking this over I don't think it will fly, but only because of one reason.

- It would hurt the Elmer Fuds & duck hunters of the world. They are the only group the NRA is really scared of enough to act. Lose there support & money and the NRA goes down the tubes.

Disclaimer - I don't personally have a problem with the NRA hunting community BUT I know they would sell us down the river in a split second. In my expierence the vast majority of them think & act like Zumbo.