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Thread: Titanium M4 Parts

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heavy Metal View Post
    The AR is not a striker-fired weapon. 85% of your lock-time is in the arc of trave of the hammer.

    A titanium AR firing pin will give you a weaker pin for mabey a couple percent reduction in lock-time.
    And eventually pierced primers. I've seen it in at least 20 ARs.....
    Chief Armorer for Elite Shooting Sports in Manassas VA
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  2. #12
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    There really aren't many places on an AR where titanium makes sense. It's softer and weaker than steel, heavier than aluminum. Titanium-on-titanium threads tend to gall and cold weld.

    A titanium suppressor would be alright. Other than that, there are other materials that do the job both better and cheaper.

  3. #13
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    I ran across a 80% titanium lower receiver if that's what you were talking about.

    https://www.vbd.com/noc/shop/product...&ProductID=286
    "We will never sleep, 'cause sleep is for the weak.
    And we will never rest, 'til we're all fking dead" -- O.S.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by dail621 View Post
    I ran across a 80% titanium lower receiver if that's what you were talking about.

    https://www.vbd.com/noc/shop/product...&ProductID=286
    That thing will be heavier than the aluminum one. Not to mention the pain in the ass it will be to be machined out. Its not offering anything that the aluminum one can do better.

    Remember the rifle was designed by an aircraft engineer that was fully aware of titanium and worked in the only industry using it . Its not needed all parts have been optimized for weight since the conception of the design.
    Last edited by Thomas M-4; 09-06-10 at 20:47.

  5. #15
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    Anyone wanting Ti for this kind of stuff is a loser.
    I have a S&W 340 PD with a titanium cylinder and a S&W 44 special five shooter, I can't remember the model number of, also with a titanium cylinder. Does that make me a looser?

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suwannee Tim View Post
    I have a S&W 340 PD with a titanium cylinder and a S&W 44 special five shooter, I can't remember the model number of, also with a titanium cylinder. Does that make me a looser?
    Not at all. Titanium makes sense for an ultralight revolver cylinder.

    If you wanted to spec gucci materials for an AR receiver, I'd look at aluminum-lithium or aluminum-scandium. Note that S&W uses Al-Sc extensively in their Airweight wheelguns.

    Al-Sc in place of regular aluminum could let you get away with less material. Al-Li in place of regular aluminum would save a couple percent weight without having to change dimensions.

  7. #17
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    I want to know from scottryan if my S&W titanium guns make me a looser.

    There are a lot of considerations in design. Some are: strength, stiffness, corrosion resistance and cost, both material cost and fabrication cost. Titanium is expensive material and is expensive to machine. You have to get some benefit from these costs. The most common reasons for using titanium are heat resistance and corrosion resistance, light weight may or may not be a factor.

    Most structures and machine parts are designed for low cost and adequate stiffness. They are designed to be adequately stiff and then are found to be more than strong enough. This holds true for things as diverse as tall buildings and automobiles. Most parts, being designed for reasonable cost and adequate stiffness will be much stronger than necessary. I think this is the case with the AR upper and lower. I think both parts are not highly stressed and could be made lighter by removing material and retain adequate stiffness and strength. Removing material costs money, every cut costs money. If you wanted a lighter gun you would do it by machining off more aluminum, not making it out of titanium which would drastically increase cost without any meaningful benefit. I know a guy who made, from a billet, an AR, lower and upper from stainless steel, strictly for bragging rights. It did not make sense for any other reason. If you want bragging rights, titanium might be one way to get them.
    Last edited by Suwannee Tim; 09-07-10 at 10:25.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas M-4 View Post
    Remember the rifle was designed by an aircraft engineer that was fully aware of titanium and worked in the only industry using it.
    Back when Mr Stoner designed the AR the aircraft industry really wasn't using Ti. There were others that were.
    Quote Originally Posted by MOA View Post
    Ti makes good firing pins. It is more flexable than steel
    I do not know about the flexibility aspect but I do know that Ti work hardens very fast and becomes brittle.
    Quote Originally Posted by Suwannee Tim View Post
    If you wanted a lighter gun you would do it by machining off more aluminum, not making it out of titanium which would drastically increase cost without any meaningful benefit.
    There is not enough aluminum on one component to remove that would make a difference.

    In another thread the OP stated that he works with motorcycles. Ti is very commonplace there as fasteners, axles, pivots, connecting rods, valves, and brake caliper pistons. They also make Ti wrist pins but their are considerations that need to be taken into account for if using them.

    Based on this I would assume that he is looking for a reduction in weight. The parts that would give the best weight reduction would be the heaviest. Starting from the heaviest -

    Barrel - it would cost way too much to machine a barrel in Ti and I am not what kind of service life you would get from it. In the end it would severely lighten your bank account more than anything.

    Bolt Carrier (not the bolt, just the carrier) - it would be more doable than the barrel but again be very cost prohibitive. You would have to engineer a real working recoil system to work with such a light part.

    I would not recommend the bolt itself as I see the slamming of the lugs against each other being a recipe for disaster.

    Gas Block - there are already aluminum ones out there and as stated, aluminum is lighter than Ti.

    Barrel Nut - Not enough weight reduction to make it worthwhile IMO. Also Ti rejects the heat.

    The only thing I had thought of was a Ti receiver extension. I figured it would be almost as light as the aluminum one but much stronger.

  9. #19
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    Speaking from a metallurgy standpoint, its all about the temper and Harding factors. Like today's jet turbines are made out of titanium. The blades are made from a single grain to promote the best hardness, and tempered for better flexibility. Now cost effectiveness would make titanium a person cringe. Not to mention the resources JUST to get the temper correct for the kind of use.

    You also might say some products might be better suited such as cobalt, brass, or even tungsten. Brass hardly though lol. Aluminum is a metal that can do so much, which is why it's so well rounded in our industries today.

    If anything i would make a firing pin out of cobalt. Hard as hell, and last for a long time. Why we use it for hip and joint replacements.
    Last edited by DoomOnYou; 09-07-10 at 20:56.
    Doom On You Mr. Tango!

  10. #20
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    Ok a Ti firingpin in a AR won't speed lock time. I wasn't thinking about it being a hammer gun. I now Ti can be made into good parts, only it seems like from what I'm hearing no one does make good parts out of Ti for the AR. I was not saying buy a Ti firingpin. Just saying that some alloys of Ti makes good firingpins. I understand that some things would be silly to make out of Ti, but it does have a place.

    And the Ti S&W revolver rock!
    Sorry, I come from the world of long range. Forgive my ignorance.

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