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Thread: cheap .223/5.56 reloading?

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by jasonh View Post
    The cheapest I've seen is the pulled bullets from military surplus. You can also buy the pulled powder. I have not bought any but that's the way I will go when it's time. I still have to get all the case prep stuff for rifle and the dies. I'm only doing 9mm and .45 at this time so there will be some learning curve here. What I've found prices of about $50/1000 bullets, and $94 for 8 pounds of powder this way. This is what got me interested in reloading 5.56... Otherwise it's not much worth my time. By the way, where did you find 1000 loaded rounds for $250? The best I can find is $300.

    Here's a link to where I would buy the pulled bullets for my first order...

    http://iidbs.com/hitech.zkb?root&method&object-menu6

    Jason
    That's what I use for range and training ammo.......

  2. #12
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    Okay, so how much prep is MANDATORY?

    On my 9mm reloads, I run the cases through the cleaner, separate the media and dump the cases into the hooper on my case feeder. I have a progressive press with a case feeder and a Dillion RF100 primer loader. I can run the press at about 800-1000 rounds per hour. I have a RCBS Powder Lock-Out die and have not had any quality control issues since installing it and running at that speed. Even with sorting the cases and all the other little prep steps with confirming powder load and depth of seat, I'm still looking at 500 rounds per man hour.

    But it looks like a pain to do .223/5.56... Maybe 100 rounds an hour if I'm lucky. From what I've seen on the wonder that is You Tube, the steps go something like this... Tumble, separate, lube, de-prime/resize, clean the primer pocket, trim to length, tumble again and separate and then reload the perfected brass.

    Do all these steps really need to be done for ammo that's being shot at a max of 100 yards, but most likely is 50 and less yards? Or are all these steps for the guys that want to punch a single whole in paper at 2-300 yard or kill gophers at 400 yards?

    Some one give me some real would info on what I'm getting into before I drop the $600 on the reloading equipment I'm going to need to do all the rifle case prep, rifle dies, shell plate, case feeder plate and so on...

    Thanks, Jason

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by jasonh View Post
    Okay, so how much prep is MANDATORY?

    On my 9mm reloads, I run the cases through the cleaner, separate the media and dump the cases into the hooper on my case feeder. I have a progressive press with a case feeder and a Dillion RF100 primer loader. I can run the press at about 800-1000 rounds per hour. I have a RCBS Powder Lock-Out die and have not had any quality control issues since installing it and running at that speed. Even with sorting the cases and all the other little prep steps with confirming powder load and depth of seat, I'm still looking at 500 rounds per man hour.

    But it looks like a pain to do .223/5.56... Maybe 100 rounds an hour if I'm lucky. From what I've seen on the wonder that is You Tube, the steps go something like this... Tumble, separate, lube, de-prime/resize, clean the primer pocket, trim to length, tumble again and separate and then reload the perfected brass.

    Do all these steps really need to be done for ammo that's being shot at a max of 100 yards, but most likely is 50 and less yards? Or are all these steps for the guys that want to punch a single whole in paper at 2-300 yard or kill gophers at 400 yards?

    Some one give me some real would info on what I'm getting into before I drop the $600 on the reloading equipment I'm going to need to do all the rifle case prep, rifle dies, shell plate, case feeder plate and so on...

    Thanks, Jason

    OK, this is how I do it. I do it in two passes. Unless you are running a press with a swage device in it like the Dillon Super 1050, this assumes you are only using brass that does not have a primer crimp or is already swaged.

    I clean, lube, dump into case feeder. I run through the first pass, which is as fast as I can pull the handle. This pass does a decap, then a size/trim with the Dillon trimmer, then a slight neck expansion using a Lyman M die adjusted to just enter the case mouth a small amount.

    Then a 20 min tumble to get rid of the lube. Dump into the case feed and go. The next pass (on a 1050) does swaging, but with the assumption above lets say it just primes, charges powder, seats and crimps bullet, and done.

    That is how I can do it now. Others will have variations on the above. I don't clean primer pockets or any other voodoo.

    I do not know the actual throughput but it is in the 500-800 an hour range using man hours and both passes.

    I use a Dillon 650 for pass one and a Dillon 1050 for pass 2. When doing heavier grain bullets I use a 650 for both passes (using only swaged brass).

    I have in fact taken to doing my 9mm as well in 2 passes. Pass one strictly deprimes, then pass 2 is the normal pass. I do it like this since the 9mm is a relatively short case with wide mouth and the powder I use (so-called Russian Unique) fills it relatively up and I was getting powder spill from depriming if there was any sort of pressure needed and then the primer gave and a slight jerk of the press would happen. This was not often but once in a while. The Dillon sizing die decapping pin is spring loaded so that jerk on tough to decap cases was causing a problem. But since I am only doing that one step I can do over a 1000 an hour on the 650 when just depriming so it is not that big of a deal.
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  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by chadbag View Post
    OK, this is how I do it. I do it in two passes. Unless you are running a press with a swage device in it like the Dillon Super 1050, this assumes you are only using brass that does not have a primer crimp or is already swaged.

    I clean, lube, dump into case feeder. I run through the first pass, which is as fast as I can pull the handle. This pass does a decap, then a size/trim with the Dillon trimmer, then a slight neck expansion using a Lyman M die adjusted to just enter the case mouth a small amount.

    Then a 20 min tumble to get rid of the lube. Dump into the case feed and go. The next pass (on a 1050) does swaging, but with the assumption above lets say it just primes, charges powder, seats and crimps bullet, and done.

    That is how I can do it now. Others will have variations on the above. I don't clean primer pockets or any other voodoo.

    I do not know the actual throughput but it is in the 500-800 an hour range using man hours and both passes.

    I use a Dillon 650 for pass one and a Dillon 1050 for pass 2. When doing heavier grain bullets I use a 650 for both passes (using only swaged brass).

    I have in fact taken to doing my 9mm as well in 2 passes. Pass one strictly deprimes, then pass 2 is the normal pass. I do it like this since the 9mm is a relatively short case with wide mouth and the powder I use (so-called Russian Unique) fills it relatively up and I was getting powder spill from depriming if there was any sort of pressure needed and then the primer gave and a slight jerk of the press would happen. This was not often but once in a while. The Dillon sizing die decapping pin is spring loaded so that jerk on tough to decap cases was causing a problem. But since I am only doing that one step I can do over a 1000 an hour on the 650 when just depriming so it is not that big of a deal.
    So you don't use a rotary cutting tool of any kind to shorten the brass? The resizing die does everything you need? And the primer pocket doesn't really need to be cleaned by hand?

    If this is all the case, all I need to get is a good set of dies, the case feeder plate and shell plate, which may be the same as the 9mm that I'm using and I would run it just like 9mm but in two passes with an extra tumble to get rid of the lube in after the first pass.

    Also, does it really matter if I'm using .223 or once reloaded 5.56 brass that's already been swaged? Or are the cases themselves interchangeable?

    Thanks for your help.

    Jason

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by jasonh View Post
    So you don't use a rotary cutting tool of any kind to shorten the brass?
    Read carefully what I said:
    This pass does a decap, then a size/trim with the Dillon trimmer, then a slight neck expansion using a Lyman M die adjusted to just enter the case mouth a small amount.
    I am using the Dillon Rapid Trim 1200B (RT 1200B) trimmer. It uses special sizing dies that have a mount for the trimmer on them so that it sizes and trims in the same stroke. It uses a rotating carbide blade spinning at 5k plus rpm to make a clean cut (no camfering/deburring is necessary most people find).

    The resizing die does everything you need? And the primer pocket doesn't really need to be cleaned by hand?
    Primer pocket cleaning is one of those things I call voodoo. It is of little use to most people. It may be useful to long range bench rest people. I read an article in a magazine where they did blind testing of reloaded ammo with and without primer pocket cleaning. They found no difference. There was some deficiencies in their test, like the caliber used. And they were not doing bench rest type shooting, just normal sport target shooting. But unless you are doing super duper bench rest type shooting I would not bother. Even with bench rest type shooting, I personally would probably skip it unless it were shown to me in a blind test that it had an effect but I don't do that kind of shooting so my opinion is worthless.

    If this is all the case, all I need to get is a good set of dies, the case feeder plate and shell plate, which may be the same as the 9mm that I'm using and I would run it just like 9mm but in two passes with an extra tumble to get rid of the lube in after the first pass.

    Also, does it really matter if I'm using .223 or once reloaded 5.56 brass that's already been swaged? Or are the cases themselves interchangeable?
    I have never bothered sorting true 556 cases from 223 cases. Some people sort by headstamp and even year. I don't bother. Most of my 223/556 loading is training and sport ammo.

    Thanks for your help.

    Jason
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  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by chadbag View Post
    Read carefully what I said:


    I am using the Dillon Rapid Trim 1200B (RT 1200B) trimmer. It uses special sizing dies that have a mount for the trimmer on them so that it sizes and trims in the same stroke. It uses a rotating carbide blade spinning at 5k plus rpm to make a clean cut (no camfering/deburring is necessary most people find).

    I have never bothered sorting true 556 cases from 223 cases. Some people sort by headstamp and even year. I don't bother. Most of my 223/556 loading is training and sport ammo.

    SWEET!!! I'm glad you went into detail here about the trimmer. I missed what you where taking about because I didn't know such thing existed. Now that I've seen in on Dillon's site, it makes total sense.

    So I need a decap/sizing die and seating die set AND the correct die for the power trimmer, plus the power trimmer and I should be good to go. That will save some serous time over hand trimming each piece.

    Thanks for all the help!

    Jason

  7. #17
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    Oh and the Lyman "M" Die for the case mouth expansion. Sounds good...

    Thanks

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by jasonh View Post
    Oh and the Lyman "M" Die for the case mouth expansion. Sounds good...

    Thanks
    Other people just use a normal 556/223 sizing die turned up a few rotations so that the expander ball/knob thing inside can be used to expand the case mouth back out.

    I have not personally done any testing but a customer of mine gave me the hint that the brass gets worked more that way than using the Lyman M die so I got the Lyman M die (from memory the 22 short one).

    Also, to be fair, other people instead, after a first trimming, just use the RCBS X-die sizing die and claim that they don't have to bother with trimming after that. I have not tried this but may in the future try it out or play with it.
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  9. #19
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    So in the process of researching this, I ran into an RCBS Lube Die. Is that any better/faster than spraying down the cases with lube? If you run a Lube Die, does that keep the lube from getting all over the place and allow you to reload in one pass through the press? Or would you still need to tumble it again to clean up the oil.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by jasonh View Post
    So in the process of researching this, I ran into an RCBS Lube Die. Is that any better/faster than spraying down the cases with lube? If you run a Lube Die, does that keep the lube from getting all over the place and allow you to reload in one pass through the press? Or would you still need to tumble it again to clean up the oil.
    Some people use the lube die. I used to sell them but have never used one. On my 650, with the decapper first and the neck expander last, there is not room for another die and spraying them down first is easy to do. I just lay out the brass on an old cookie sheet, do a few quick sprays, and let it sit for 10 min to let the carrier evaporate. I then dump it in the case feed, lay out another layer of brass and spray so that it can sit and evaporate the carrier while I am working, and I go.

    You still need to tumble off the lube on the brass when using the lube die. The lube die and spraying are analogs to getting the lube ON the case. Neither does anything to get the lube off.
    • formerly known as "eguns-com"
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