Page 1 of 6 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 51

Thread: The new barrel paradigm....GP LW CHF / P MW SS

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Sacramento
    Posts
    2,317
    Feedback Score
    7 (100%)

    The new barrel paradigm....GP LW CHF / P MW SS

    This is where my AR collection is heading....

    For close-in General purpose use, 14.5" Lightweight profile Cold-Hammer Forged barrels:


    For longer-range General purpose use, 16" Midweight profile CHF:


    For long-range Precision shooting, 18" Heavy/Mid profile Stainless Steel match-grade:


    Next up: close-in Precision (Recce) 16" H/M SS


    Concur?
    "The secret to happiness is freedom, and the secret to freedom is courage." - Thucydides, c. 410 BC

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    11,063
    Feedback Score
    41 (98%)
    You could consolidate the 1st two with a 14.5" middy. You are only talking about a 1.5" barrel difference between the two.



    With how reliable guns like the 14.5" middy have turned out to be theres really no purpose in a 14.5" carbine anymore. With the same barrel length you can get a much smoother gun. SBR's are where carbine gas lengths should be relegated to.



    And just thought Id talk about this just because.....but Im actually 2nd guessing the whole 556 precision gun thing. Ive been shooting a lot lately out to 500 and beyond that. Ive self discovered that the 556 sucks as a long range gun unless you are in calm conditions, and even then the round barely has any pop at that distance. Even with heavy 556 rounds I have trouble putting LaRue steel targets down. 308 puts them down with authority. Past 500 even light wind blows the rounds all over the place. I was out a week or two ago, and shooting at 750 with good ammo, and at that range the slightest breeze would blow the round 3-4 feet off target. Other guys with 30's and up had no such problems. Not talking about doping for wind but when you have wind that goes from 5-15 between shots you simply can't dope for that at 750 yards with such a light round. Other guys were shooting 300 magnums with 200 grain + bullets, and smacking the shit out of the gongs. Maybe just hold on the left or right side of the target if the wind picked up. That brings me to wondering what, exactly a 556 precision gun is good for. I can hit 500 yard gongs with relative ease with a reece setup so all the extra weight and glass is rather useless past a reece setup. Basically you can be just as effective with a good quality reece as you could with an SPR.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Sacramento
    Posts
    2,317
    Feedback Score
    7 (100%)
    I hear you on the 14.5" middies; in fact I was planning another build using the same barrel as the one in the first pic, but with a DD RIS II and Aimpoint T1, to make the gun more capable (but I had to have a KISS too!). The barrel on the 14.5" CAR in the first pic is one of the new DD Lightweight CHF barrels; these barrels are sweet, something missing from the market for a long time. The 16" CHF is a Centurion heavy-duty barrel; it will be interesting to compare its accuracy potential to the Recce when it is completed. When I have them all and have done a lot of shooting with them, I may mor may not consolidate.

    I was IMing with a guy on TOS who did two tours as a DM in Afghanistan, and he thinks heavy 5.56 out of a precision rifle is sufficient out to 700m (he himself has put then down at that range). However, I see he too now has a DM-type AR10....I will be doing one of those as well, as soon as my 5.56 arsenal is complete.
    Last edited by wild_wild_wes; 09-11-10 at 19:43.
    "The secret to happiness is freedom, and the secret to freedom is courage." - Thucydides, c. 410 BC

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Utah
    Posts
    8,421
    Feedback Score
    3 (100%)
    The reason the 30 calibers were performing better at long ranges is because the bullets being used have a better ballistic coefficient than the bullets used in your 5.56/223 ammunition. 55 gr pills in particular are notorious for having low BCs and being susceptible to being blown around by the wind.

    Choose a bullet with the proper BC and it will make tagging those long range targets much easier. There is a reason why the AR in 5.56/223 has dethroned the 7.62x51/308 in High Power Rifle matches. They won't hit with as much energy as the 300 magnums, but the punishment to your shoulder will be much less

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Maine
    Posts
    7,868
    Feedback Score
    0
    77 gr. rounds can go out to 750, or 800m.

    If I can see a guy put down more than 15 rounds out of a 30 round magazine, on target at 800m with 25-30mph wind. Then I am satisfied. I'll just train.

    (Watched a cell phone video of a guy I knew in high school do this with a LMT MRP 14.5'', and did 16 out of 30 with a KAC E3 16.1'' gun.)
    We miss you, AC.
    We miss you, ToddG.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    5,117
    Feedback Score
    7 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by Belmont31R View Post
    You could consolidate the 1st two with a 14.5" middy. You are only talking about a 1.5" barrel difference between the two.



    With how reliable guns like the 14.5" middy have turned out to be theres really no purpose in a 14.5" carbine anymore. With the same barrel length you can get a much smoother gun. SBR's are where carbine gas lengths should be relegated to.



    And just thought Id talk about this just because.....but Im actually 2nd guessing the whole 556 precision gun thing. Ive been shooting a lot lately out to 500 and beyond that. Ive self discovered that the 556 sucks as a long range gun unless you are in calm conditions, and even then the round barely has any pop at that distance. Even with heavy 556 rounds I have trouble putting LaRue steel targets down. 308 puts them down with authority. Past 500 even light wind blows the rounds all over the place. I was out a week or two ago, and shooting at 750 with good ammo, and at that range the slightest breeze would blow the round 3-4 feet off target. Other guys with 30's and up had no such problems. Not talking about doping for wind but when you have wind that goes from 5-15 between shots you simply can't dope for that at 750 yards with such a light round. Other guys were shooting 300 magnums with 200 grain + bullets, and smacking the shit out of the gongs. Maybe just hold on the left or right side of the target if the wind picked up. That brings me to wondering what, exactly a 556 precision gun is good for. I can hit 500 yard gongs with relative ease with a reece setup so all the extra weight and glass is rather useless past a reece setup. Basically you can be just as effective with a good quality reece as you could with an SPR.
    I would disagree with most of the above but to discuss the SPR/recce thought a bit more....

    The NSWC who participated in the constructing and testing of both the Seal Recon Rifle a.k.a. recce rifle and the Special Purpose Receiver/Rifle program by in large felt the 16" recce was a waste of resources and time....thus canceling any future work on it and then adopting the SPR which ultimately grew into the mk12 so I think you kinda got the last part backwards in my estimation as the SPR is the keeper if one has to go between them.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    463
    Feedback Score
    0
    End use...

    I hunt with my AR's and getting 100fps more with a 16" gun vs. a 14.5" gun more than makes up for the extra 1.5" barrel.

    I'll keep my 18" Noveske as well as my 17" Kreiger, seems to be a sweet spot right in there.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Sacramento
    Posts
    2,317
    Feedback Score
    7 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by TRIDENT82 View Post
    The NSWC who participated in the constructing and testing of both the Seal Recon Rifle a.k.a. recce rifle and the Special Purpose Receiver/Rifle program by in large felt the 16" recce was a waste of resources and time....thus canceling any future work on it and then adopting the SPR which ultimately grew into the mk12 so I think you kinda got the last part backwards in my estimation as the SPR is the keeper if one has to go between them.
    Yes, but the SEAL end users who started the process were dissatisfied with the SPR and built 16" Recces using unit funds.
    "The secret to happiness is freedom, and the secret to freedom is courage." - Thucydides, c. 410 BC

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    11,063
    Feedback Score
    41 (98%)
    Quote Originally Posted by MistWolf View Post
    The reason the 30 calibers were performing better at long ranges is because the bullets being used have a better ballistic coefficient than the bullets used in your 5.56/223 ammunition. 55 gr pills in particular are notorious for having low BCs and being susceptible to being blown around by the wind.

    Choose a bullet with the proper BC and it will make tagging those long range targets much easier. There is a reason why the AR in 5.56/223 has dethroned the 7.62x51/308 in High Power Rifle matches. They won't hit with as much energy as the 300 magnums, but the punishment to your shoulder will be much less


    Ive shot 77 GR SMK's, TAP T2, and Hornady 75GR BTHP rounds out to 750, and noticed the wind deflection even with those.


    Even with a good 556 bullet means they slow down quicker, and the same amount of wind has more effect on them. 30 cal both has more weight (less affected by wind), and retains energy better.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    11,063
    Feedback Score
    41 (98%)
    Quote Originally Posted by TRIDENT82 View Post
    I would disagree with most of the above but to discuss the SPR/recce thought a bit more....

    The NSWC who participated in the constructing and testing of both the Seal Recon Rifle a.k.a. recce rifle and the Special Purpose Receiver/Rifle program by in large felt the 16" recce was a waste of resources and time....thus canceling any future work on it and then adopting the SPR which ultimately grew into the mk12 so I think you kinda got the last part backwards in my estimation as the SPR is the keeper if one has to go between them.


    Thats fine. I just think a 30 cal SPR/DMR/whatever is a better choice for long range shooting than a 223. Just like the ELR guys are not even shooting 30 calibers but 375's, 408's and 416's. The further out you go the more speed and bullet mass help you. Another example is the Army switching from 308 to 300 win mag because you can shoot heavier bullets at a faster FPS. Just upping bullet mass and speed raises the max effective range from 800M to 1200M.


    Edit: Just doing some calcs on KAC BulletFlight a 300WM with a 220GR bullet has less than half (actually closer to a 3rd) the wind deflection at 750 yards than Mk262Mod1 out of a Mk12. The 300WM was a little over 3FT of deflection with a 15MPH wind from side to side whereas the Mk262 was over 104". With Mk262 at 5MPH its about the same as 300WM at 15MPH (35"). So gusty wind out to 750 with Mk262 ranges from between 3-9FT whereas 300WM is about 1-3FT. I think thats a pretty dramatic difference, and Id like to see someone make regular hits on a torso size target with gusty wind like that. Not saying it can't be done but going up to a .30 makes a big difference at that range as I said in my 1st post in this thread.
    Last edited by Belmont31R; 09-12-10 at 17:37.

Page 1 of 6 123 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •