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Thread: The new barrel paradigm....GP LW CHF / P MW SS

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by TRIDENT82 View Post
    I own both type guns and although I would hate to do it, the recce would be shelved if I had to take only one.
    Bah. You and I have surprisingly similar preferences (and rifles, for that matter), so I hate reading that... because it means I just might prefer my future SPR over the Recce (provided I ever get around to finishing it).

    Now I'm going to spend the next week trying to figure out how to fund an SPR purchase... lol.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skyyr View Post
    Bah. You and I have surprisingly similar preferences (and rifles, for that matter), so I hate reading that... because it means I just might prefer my future SPR over the Recce (provided I ever get around to finishing it).

    Now I'm going to spend the next week trying to figure out how to fund an SPR purchase... lol.
    Oh snap...you caught me red handed flipping and a flopping

    Crazy you bring this up though because over the last month since that quoted text I made....I finally got the matching Rock SS 16" Recce barrel to compliment, finish and now compare my journey through the NSW-C guns with accuracy being paramount to both guns. While I am preparing some sort of proper evaluation with me currently compiling mostly groups of the two side by side at 100yds I can say that is one helluva false statement I made above and I completely rescind it as already the writing is on the wall if keeping the match grade barrel and other components critical to match accuracy constant.....Less is easily more on this discussion unless discussing 450-600yds performance.. and then I am still not sure as I have not shot either that far nor collected any velocity data. Besides compiling a healthy amt. of groups side by side w. various ammo, I will hope to chrono the typical heavy match loads though both and lastly hit the 600yd range to compile some data in terms of these side by side at LR distances where then the actual extra barrel length of the SPR might bring it back into my picture. Right now with this new recce pushing out 10rd. 100yd groups around .75-.85" with commercial Hornady 55gr. vmax's I am beyond back on board with our shared beloved recce gun.

    As you can see they are built with the intention of being relative twins w. both having 10x NF's, match triggers, same free floated rifle length MRP chassis and last but not least the same most amazing Rock SS barrels as the Rock 16" SS recce is the same barrel as the Rock 18" SS SPR just shortened.


    Recce's first and only to date range trip....
    Last edited by ALCOAR; 10-21-10 at 20:51.

  3. #23
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    If only I could know what terrain and distance my foe will be... I'd have the right one with me.

    Rmpl
    "Our destruction... will be from another quarter. From the inattention of the people to the concerns of their government, from their carelessness and negligence..."
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  4. #24
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    I love the mission specific weapon. Conversly love the flexibility of the AR platform. My main trainer, go to, is a 16" but have sizes smaller and bigger for the specific "outing."

    Love Camerons collection.
    Glocks are functional tools and nothing else, hence they have no soul - Rob S.

  5. #25
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    I looked around and can't find the exact quote but I'm pretty sure it was Kyle DeFoor who said that the Seals messed around with different lengths for a precision M4 and found that 16" was about right. The 18" didn't add much more to accuracy and velocity when compared to a 16" for typical engagement distances where the 5.56 is effective. He also mentioned that a heavy 14'5" would probably even work. Maybe explains some of the 16" recce versus 18" SPR thinking.

    It's interesting to see some of the conventional wisdom being challenged, like Knights with the SR-25 EMC where they went with 16" as the performance loss to 18" was almost negligible and now LMT seems to have come to the same conclusion with the MWS.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by wileecoyote View Post
    I looked around and can't find the exact quote but I'm pretty sure it was Kyle DeFoor who said that the Seals messed around with different lengths for a precision M4 and found that 16" was about right. The 18" didn't add much more to accuracy and velocity when compared to a 16" for typical engagement distances where the 5.56 is effective. He also mentioned that a heavy 14'5" would probably even work. Maybe explains some of the 16" recce versus 18" SPR thinking.

    It's interesting to see some of the conventional wisdom being challenged, like Knights with the SR-25 EMC where they went with 16" as the performance loss to 18" was almost negligible and now LMT seems to have come to the same conclusion with the MWS.
    I completely agree about the current state of precision based ARs be it 7.62 or 5.56 being interesting to watch and how it is indeed shifting.

    When I just wrapped up this recce and saw what its gonna do to the spr....I heard that "Ding" illustrated by the bold text of yours ...again given the match grade SS barrel and other components critical to accuracy are held constant.
    Last edited by ALCOAR; 10-14-10 at 15:35.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cameron View Post
    I did the same thing WWW, I wanted to have a "set" of ARs for various roles/ranges. I think that an AR15's capability is basically determined by its sights. So I set about getting 3, then 4, then 5 ARs, that had various barrel lengths and optics for their operating envelopes. I wasn't as concerned with barrel profiles or cold hammer forging as barrel length for velocity and barrel quality for accuracy.

    The close range carbines 10.5" 14.5" and 16" with Red Dot Sights have; NATO chambers, chrome lined barrels, and single stage triggers, whereas the 16" Recce and the 18" SPR have tweaked chambers, stainless match barrels, and 2 stage triggers.
    Cameron
    Yes, exactly: it seems best to match the optic to the barrel, and then for the most capable optic/barrel combo, add a better trigger. My Recce will have the Geissele SSA trigger, and the SPR has a DMR trigger.

    I've decided to add another to my line-up:


    I love that barrel! A DD 14.5" Lightwight CHF; but it lacks rails, so I will build another using the same barrel, but with a low-profile gas block under a DD Mk18 RIS II, and for an optic it will have a T1 Aimpoint.



    Nice collection, Cameron! I'd turn my 14.5"s into 12"s if California allowed SBRs....
    Last edited by wild_wild_wes; 10-14-10 at 21:43.
    "The secret to happiness is freedom, and the secret to freedom is courage." - Thucydides, c. 410 BC

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by TRIDENT82 View Post
    I completely agree about the current state of precision based ARs be it 7.62 or 5.56 being interesting to watch and how it is indeed shifting.
    Yes, interesting! Some units are re-barreling shot-out SPRs with 16" barrels:



    And then perhaps the 5.56 SPR concept will give way to the new 16" 7.62 precision carbines? Tis' the case with several European armies already....
    "The secret to happiness is freedom, and the secret to freedom is courage." - Thucydides, c. 410 BC

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by wild_wild_wes View Post
    And then perhaps the 5.56 SPR concept will give way to the new 16" 7.62 precision carbines? Tis' the case with several European armies already....
    I think that there is a new version of the M110 with a 16" barrel and Magpul ACS being fielded or at least considered. KevinB has made a couple of vague references to it on ST. Sounds like it's basically a new incarnation of the SR25 Battle Rifle.

  10. #30
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    Agreed. I think A'stan is helping to refine our doctrines and bring back the point that all engagements may not be confined to 300m. I think the addition of 7.62 (M110 carbine?) precision weapons to our units will help give them an additional tool in the toolbox.

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