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Thread: Small Arms Review and NFA Trusts

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coleslaw View Post
    I don't know of anything that is a simple solution to the gov't. Take a look at a good percentage of the emplyees, and you will find your answer as to why it is a goat ****.

    Removing the LE sign off was thought of decades ago. I know two long time fellow C3 dealers that initiated legal action against a county sheriff that wouldn't sign. It ended up going nowhere in part because of the expense to litigate such a suit with not too much in the way of a return. At the time from a financial standpoint, it was difficult to justify the expense.

    To say it would have been a moral victory had they won is an understatement. It also would have set precendent requiring the chief LE to perform his/her duty, which included fulfilling their obligation to sign the form 4 - the basis for the suit by the way.
    Oh, I know it's quite unlikely it will happen.

    I'm also quite familiar with the 1934 Group's suit against the ATF to eliminate the CLEO signoff. I won the raffle that was held at Knob Creek in 2002 to support their case and got a Vector Uzi subgun out of it. Well, my brother did since I had just bought a Vector Uzi a few months earlier (hence my interest in eliminating the signoff requirement) and didn't need two of them.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coleslaw View Post
    To say it would have been a moral victory had they won is an understatement. It also would have set precendent requiring the chief LE to perform his/her duty, which included fulfilling their obligation to sign the form 4 - the basis for the suit by the way.
    only thing, is if you force the local LEO to start signing off, who is to say he wont take 10 years to do his "Background check".....there going to be pissed about doing something they don't believe in, so they'll find routes to get around the requirement.

  3. #53
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    Seeking a little advice - I've got the bug for an SBR for my next build (I've got a 16" midlength, why bother putting together a lightweight 14.5" when I could go shorter!).

    I live in Texas, so the trust route is easy and I can put my dad on there as well (in the event that I move to San Francisco or Portland for a few years, as I'd like to, he can take over the toys), and I feel like I'd be best served getting a lawyer to write the trust instead of software. Luckily there are a few family friends I could get to do it cheap.

    When I read posts from the various NFA Lawyer guys, it sounds more like scare tactics and sales pitch than straight advice (or I'm a cynic). Should a lawyer who deals with wills and non-NFA trusts be able to handle setting one up to suit the ATF, or should I pay the premium to go with one of the guys who specializes in them?

  4. #54
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    Ask your attorney if this requires a specialist. I think it is important to see specialist at times. When we dealt with my fathers estate we used an attorney who specialized in estates. I would not use the same guy for a criminal case.

    I did my trust alone. I think an attorney would be able to take care of you well.
    "Real men have always needed to know what time it is so they are at the airfield on time, pumping rounds into savages at the right time, etc. Being able to see such in the dark while light weights were comfy in bed without using a light required luminous material." -Originally Posted by ramairthree

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by milosz View Post
    When I read posts from the various NFA Lawyer guys, it sounds more like scare tactics and sales pitch than straight advice (or I'm a cynic). Should a lawyer who deals with wills and non-NFA trusts be able to handle setting one up to suit the ATF, or should I pay the premium to go with one of the guys who specializes in them?
    It isn't brain surgery. A trust is a trust is a trust; there is no magic language necessary to make it an NFA trust. Make sure the lawyer you choose has experience doing trusts and estates work in Texas and you should be GTG. A good specialist is always a good idea - emphasis on "good" - but isn't necessary.
    Last edited by TriumphRat675; 12-14-10 at 19:06.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith934 View Post
    NICS check is not required when picking up an NFA item. I picked up my SBR, on a trust, today, filled out the 4473 and the dealer checked a box on the last page that says "NFA Item, NICS not required" (not an exact quote of the verbiage).
    You are correct, no NCIS check is required. I was surprised by this when I did my first NFA purchase / transfer. From the verbiage on the 4473, if you are purchasing an NFA firearm and a non-NFA firearm at the same time, then a check would be required because of the non-NFA firearm. From line 22 of the 4473:

    "No NCIS check was required because the transfer involved only NFA firearm(s)."

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolverines! View Post
    You are correct, no NCIS check is required. I was surprised by this when I did my first NFA purchase / transfer. From the verbiage on the 4473, if you are purchasing an NFA firearm and a non-NFA firearm at the same time, then a check would be required because of the non-NFA firearm. From line 22 of the 4473:

    "No NCIS check was required because the transfer involved only NFA firearm(s)."
    I've only done it twice and the dealer ran the check both times. Im also the first trust he's seen. He tried to tell me I need prints and a photograph. I think my next SBR will be a form one. I have to engrave" The Revocable Living Trust of 1st & last name Barre, VT." I wish I could dump "The Revocable" but
    I wanted to put it inside the trigger guard. Looks like I may need a bigger spot!
    "Real men have always needed to know what time it is so they are at the airfield on time, pumping rounds into savages at the right time, etc. Being able to see such in the dark while light weights were comfy in bed without using a light required luminous material." -Originally Posted by ramairthree

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by usmcvet View Post
    I've only done it twice and the dealer ran the check both times. Im also the first trust he's seen.
    Interesting, I've had two NFA transfers, both to my trust, and no NCIS check on either one. Same dealer who does a lot of NFA transfers.

    For an individual transfer, BATF&E would do the check I believe, since they have the individual to run the check against. But with a trust, it's an entity and not an individual. You might want to show him that line on the 4473.
    Last edited by Wolverines!; 12-18-10 at 13:32.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by CleverNickname View Post
    Well, my brother did since I had just bought a Vector Uzi a few months earlier (hence my interest in eliminating the signoff requirement) and didn't need two of them.
    Like they say, one is none and two is one.

  10. #60
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    Yeah I don't think I will to back to him. The transfer fee is $50 which is totally reasonable but he keeps charging me sales tax and they have a local 1% tax so 7% kinda sucks. We have an option in VT of paying a flat fee with our income tax of fifty or one hundred bucks for all mail order purchases. That is my plan.
    "Real men have always needed to know what time it is so they are at the airfield on time, pumping rounds into savages at the right time, etc. Being able to see such in the dark while light weights were comfy in bed without using a light required luminous material." -Originally Posted by ramairthree

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