The ill fated HK 1911...what was different?

**The Dumb Gun Collector** · 07-13-07, 01:38

"lthough few people realize this, the much-talked-about HK 45 was actually born out of an ill-fated HK 1911 program. A number of years ago Ken Hackathorn and I were consultants to Heckler & Koch on developing an enhanced 1911-type pistol. It would have had some excellent features,"

Vickers' said this in Guns and Ammo. Does anyone have any other details? Somebody who knows him ask please?

**Striker5** · 07-13-07, 06:38

I recall somewhere in the article he says that the HK 1911 "would price it's way out of the market" or words to that effect. A battleworthy 1911 (for complete consistency over a large production run) is at least a moderately expensive proposition. The tack on the fact that HK stuff is always pricey. Also HK is probably fat on military contracts and doesn't see the need to build something completely new for them that would be expensive to produce and export and appeal to a relatively small corner of the gun market.

This is all speculation of course.

**Matt Edwards** · 07-13-07, 10:20

P7,

Larry said it "never made it's way off the paper." (paraphrased)
The only things he mentions at the course, that I remember was it was to have a external extractor, the ejector was held in a different manner and a perhaps a integral plunger tube...

**The Dumb Gun Collector** · 07-15-07, 23:11

Too bad that didn't come off the drawing board. It would have been nice to see what H&K could do with old slabby.

**Mojo58** · 07-16-07, 02:49

Originally Posted by Matt Edwards

P7,

..... I remember was it was to have an external extractor, the ejector was held in a different manner and a perhaps a integral plunger tube...

Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't the external extractors the ones that were causing issues on some of the Kimber 1911s or do I have it the other way around and the problem being the internal extractors?

**M4Guru** · 07-16-07, 06:46

Yeah, all the current external extractors suck that are available. Hilton Yam has been working on one for a while that will work like a champ when he is satisfied with the results.

**trio** · 07-16-07, 09:54

I was under the impression that, while the Kimber External Extractor was a disaster and the Sig GSR wasnt MUCH better, the Smith and Wesson external extractor has been pretty successful...

From what I read and hear the S&W1911 and S&W1911PD series of guns are all experiencing a wide range of success and both, if I am not mistaken, feature an external extractor...(in fact, I dont seem to have read any more or less complaints about the S&W 1911s than I do about any of their other comprable counterparts....ie springfields, the basic colts, kimbers, etc....)

**rubberneck** · 07-16-07, 10:14

Originally Posted by trio

I was under the impression that, while the Kimber External Extractor was a disaster and the Sig GSR wasnt MUCH better, the Smith and Wesson external extractor has been pretty successful...

From what I read and hear the S&W1911 and S&W1911PD series of guns are all experiencing a wide range of success and both, if I am not mistaken, feature an external extractor...(in fact, I dont seem to have read any more or less complaints about the S&W 1911s than I do about any of their other comprable counterparts....ie springfields, the basic colts, kimbers, etc....)

Kimber's extractor was an unmitigated disaster and Smith and Wesson hasn't had any problems with theirs.

Sig had problems in the beginning but there is a story behind their problems. They were buying their external extractors from Wilson Combat who in turn were outsourcing them from a third party. Shortly before the GSR first came out the company making the part for Wilson changed the specs of the extractor without telling Wilson or Sig. That was the genesis of their issues. Sig hired George Smith at EGW to redesign and produce the new external extractor and since then they have been rock solid.

**M4Guru** · 07-16-07, 17:13

I have seen firsthand 3 SW1911s experience extraction problems that could not be fixed. One got a new Caspian slide, 2 went back to Smith. One of those worked well enough and the other was sold. That's enough for me not to trust them.

Only 3 is not too bad, though. You hear less about SW 1911s than others. If I went to school with all the time I spent fixing Kimber Series II guns I'd be doing heart transplants right now instead.