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Thread: Alternatives to a Kimber

  1. #31
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    When my department first allowed 1911's we probably had about 30 or so Kimbers fielded (mostly TLE II's and TLE/RL II's). Of those guns at least half had problems that rendered the guns inoperable. I am also aware of several neighboring departments that have had the same issues. Luckily these problems occurred in a training environment rather than on the street.

    I carry a Springfield Professional at work (until I get my Jardine Colt) and I am of the opinion that the Pro and like pistols are the MINIMUM quality that should be relied upon for duty or self defense. I cringe when I hear that anyone is relying on a stock Kimber for anything more than a range toy.

    With regards to LAPD....yes, LAPD SWAT bought a bunch of TLE II's. I challenge you to find one that is unmodified that is being carried by them. Yes, LAPD's SIS bought a bunch of Kimber 1911's. Probably about 95% of that unit is carrying Glock 21's and 22's. Kimber's marketing is not reality.

    I own a Kimber Custom Classic (pre-Series II). I had some "issues" with the gun (i.e. it didn't work). I sent it off to a very competent pistolsmith who posts on this board. I told him I simply wanted it made reliable. He told told me he would only replace what he had to. The only factory parts left on the gun are the slide, barrel and frame. FBI clue folks.

    To any LE folks out there that want to carry a 1911 at work or off duty. You NEED to be extremely familiar with the platform before you even ponder carrying one at work or for self defense. You better be able to tear it down to the last pin and springs and be able to build it back up without thinking and have a decent understanding of how the parts interact. You also must be able to do a 2,000 round challenge with your gun without any issues to make sure it is reliable and test it with lots of different shapes of bullets. If you can't do any of these things then look to a Glock, M&P or something similar.

    If I had only $1300 to play with for a 1911 I would either decide on going to a different platform or would look for a used Wilson or Baer. I still would have them checked out and run 2000 rounds without cleaning through them before carrying them. A distant second would be to purchase a Colt Gunsite Edition (if you can find one) or a Colt Combat Elite and have them checked out by a competent 1911 smith (which there are very few of).

    I have not handled and don't know enough about STI's products since they refuse to support law enforcement and faithful supporters of the 2nd Amendment out here in California.
    Last edited by kaltblitz; 09-25-10 at 14:01.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by biker911 View Post
    What are MIM parts ? I some times have a hard time following all the acronyms.......
    Metal Injection Molded

    Lots of gun companies are using MIM parts. Just because some parts are made of MIM does not mean they are crap. Kimber's parts suppliers simply don't know how to make a quality MIM part though. Broken slide stops and broken thumb safeties have been (and are) prolific throughout Kimber's lineup.

  3. #33
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    bgoode,

    Thanks for the insight bud. I really appreciate it. We can't get any better if we don't take constructive criticism.
    Vereor Deus Pugna Malem

    John 3:30

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaltblitz View Post
    When my department first allowed 1911's we probably had about 30 or so Kimbers fielded......
    This is the info that matters. When it comes down to picking platforms for something as important as "home defense", as the OP stated was the intent of this discussion, you may never get all the answers.

    Sometimes, it's not about knowing the answers, it's about knowing where to find those answers. kaltblitz gave a "FBI clue". and Doc Roberts, Hilton Yam, Larry Vickers have been giving them out for years. The minimum level 1911 for life saving/taking use is the Springer Pro, the 10-8 operator, etc. If this level of quality cannot be attained, then stick to a glock, M&P, HK.

    why do we have to beat this to death?
    "you give peace a chance, I'll stay here and cover you, in case it doesn't work out"

  5. #35
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    Times are tough. If you shop around enough you can find him a slightly used Baer TRS for $1200 - $1300.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by excatm76 View Post
    Inhis price range I'd say The TRP is hard to beat. If he wants a 1911 with a rail and intends to shoot IDPA tell him to pay attention to the weight and the barrel configuration. The TRP for instance is not IDPA due to bushingless barrel.

    If he has to have a KImber try to talk him into an older one if he can find it, or a Warrior or aniversary model. They will not have the Swartz safety. In my experiance the old pre series IIs were great production 1911s.

    The only bad things I can say about current Springfields are that some are marked made in Brazil, wich may bother someone wanting a 1911. And the triggers are not as good aas some other options due to the ILS. The trigger gets much better if the guts in the MSH are swapped for standard parts, but some will point out real or precieved liability issues with doing that. I also do not personally care for adjustable sights like thoose on the TRP Operator on a defensive pistol for 2 reasons. One adjustables aren't as durable as standard sights. Two finding replacement sights that will fit the adjustable sight cut is near impossible, so you are stuck with the factory design.

    There are also at least two versions of the TRP available without the rail; one is stainless and the other is in black Armory Coat.

    Best, Jon

  7. #37
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    kaltblitz's post above on 1911's for duty use is perhaps the best I have ever read on this subject; those who fail to heed its wisdom are FOOLS.
    Last edited by DocGKR; 09-25-10 at 20:11.

  8. #38
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    Wink Back to the intended pupose.

    Quote Originally Posted by crusader377 View Post
    His main use will be plinking and home defense.
    Well, If it's not for LEO Duty use, which this thread has drifted off to,

    Have you considered a S&W 1911 Platform? If you don't mind the external extractor, Never had a problem with S&W version of drop safety. Only have around 8000plus in year and half.. never had a failure to fire..Granted I'm not any type of high speed kinda guy,.That's only an average of 100rds a week, more recently as i've started reloading. & shooting IDPA.

    As I posted on a different thread, S&W 1911 platforms are Boringly Reliable..
    For Your Father's intended purpose they may be worth a look..

  9. #39
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    duty use and home defense use require the same of a gun. the severe consequence of failure in either situation is the same, as someone's life will be lost.
    Last edited by theJanitor; 09-25-10 at 22:29.
    "you give peace a chance, I'll stay here and cover you, in case it doesn't work out"

  10. #40
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    Somehow I doubt you want to rely on the fact that the dude kicking your door in has seen Kimber's marketing and is impressed with it.

    Do you want a gun less reliable than a cop's when it comes time to protect your life and your family's lives?

    When the average cost of a brand new dead-nuts reliable Glock or M&P at a non-LEO price is around $600 or so why does it make sense to advocate $900 to $1200 gun that's known not to be reliable or is only reliable "sometimes." Sometimes isn't good enough for me.

    I don't care if we're talking LE duty or home defense. Both need a reliable and effective gun. The conversation is the same.

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