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Thread: Alternatives to a Kimber

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boothj View Post
    SWATcop1911,

    I work for STI, what is it about our products that you don't like for duty use. I'm not arguing with you or going on the defense but I would like your insight.
    One of my big issues is not just limited to STI. I have no love for a double stack 1911 for anything other than gaming/competition. I have yet to find a double stack 1911 that ran reliably enough for me to use for anything else. The tighter tolerances make running the gun into the higher round count somewhat difficult but no impossible with good lube. STI makes great guns, don't get me wrong, but they are not geared towards my applications. Holster compatability is also an issue.

    If someone wants to have 12-14 rounds of 45 ACP on tap then get a M&P45 with the APEX DCAEK. It will do everything the shooter needs it to.
    Only hits count......you can not miss fast enough to catch up

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaltblitz View Post
    With regards to LAPD....yes, LAPD SWAT bought a bunch of TLE II's. I challenge you to find one that is unmodified that is being carried by them. Yes, LAPD's SIS bought a bunch of Kimber 1911's. Probably about 95% of that unit is carrying Glock 21's and 22's. Kimber's marketing is not reality.
    Agreed. Just as Glock Perfection really only applies to the Gen3 9mm guns.

    Quote Originally Posted by kaltblitz View Post
    I own a Kimber Custom Classic (pre-Series II). I had some "issues" with the gun (i.e. it didn't work). I sent it off to a very competent pistolsmith who posts on this board. I told him I simply wanted it made reliable. He told told me he would only replace what he had to. The only factory parts left on the gun are the slide, barrel and frame. FBI clue folks.
    They same for my Kimber TLE RL II. Runs like a G19 now but it's no where near stock. Only the slide, barrel, and frame remain from the factory gun. $200-300 more and I could have just bought a NIB Springfield Pro for what I have in the Kimber.

    Unless you have the knowledge, skill, and time to devote to a duty grade (not just LE duty) 1911 then the M&P45 with the Apex DCAEK is the top contender.
    Only hits count......you can not miss fast enough to catch up

  3. #43
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    my S&W 1911 pd has been perfect for 3k rounds.
    type 2 operator

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonInWA View Post
    There are also at least two versions of the TRP available without the rail; one is stainless and the other is in black Armory Coat.

    Best, Jon
    Both thoose are great pistols. But neither has a rail. If Springfield would make a railed TRP without the bushingless barrel I'd be pretty happy.

  5. #45
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    My stock Warrior runs. Mods were a Vickers hand-profiled thumb safety, and Rogers Precision golfballing. My TLE/RL II with external extractor ran fine for 2000+ rds with no issue too.

    I had to send another Warrior off to Novak's shop to get it right though. So my success is 100%, but one with major mods and two with no mods.

    I doubt Kimber's actual failure rate is 33.3% or higher, but I wouldn't want to be the guy who unknowingly bought a $850-$1000 1911 that was the one in five or 1 in 10 to be a lemon.

    The one I bought with issues, I knew about it up front and got a great price.
    Last edited by SHIVAN; 09-26-10 at 10:41.
    "I'm not saying I invented the turtleneck. But I was the first person to realize its potential as a tactical garment. The tactical turtleneck! The... tactleneck! - Sterling Archer"
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    "Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgment that something else is more important
    than one's fear. The timid presume it is lack of fear that allows the brave to act when the timid do not."

  6. #46
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    A 1911 builder in my area, same area Les Baer is from, swears on S&W frames. Him and Baer were pals so I trust his expertise. A good S&W will cost less than a Kimber.
    "Perfect Practice Makes Perfect"
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  7. #47
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    Geez whiz, have Kimbers gotten that bad?!? My 2002 Custom II has always treated me well and I've always been pleased with it's performance over the years. I've put about 7000-8500 rounds through it over the years without any problems, other than retuning the extractor. I remember all of the talk of MIM parts, none of mine have failed (slide stop, extractor. firing pin retaining plate) but I did replace a few not long after I got it (hammer, safety) and grip safety a few years later. Sounds like Kimber has gone the way of Sig, actually probably the other way around as the head of Sig Sauer USA came from Kimber IIRC. I love my Kimber, out of the box it was 100% and accurate- I ended up customizing primarily out of aesthetics personal preferences.
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  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaltesherz View Post
    Geez whiz, have Kimbers gotten that bad?!?
    In reality, no probably not nearly as bad as all the horror stories we hear on the internet. However, most of us are having a hard time recommending them when we keep seeing trusted sources, or their own departments, continually getting lemons in batches of pistols.

    There is obviously no way a 20, 30, or 40% failure rate is sustainable for a business. If that were the case, in reality, Kimber would be out of business by now.

    People want to have a clear conscience, so they tell about the warts that are reality, and let you decide if you want to risk being the guy who gets the lemon, or not.
    "I'm not saying I invented the turtleneck. But I was the first person to realize its potential as a tactical garment. The tactical turtleneck! The... tactleneck! - Sterling Archer"
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    "Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgment that something else is more important
    than one's fear. The timid presume it is lack of fear that allows the brave to act when the timid do not."

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by SHIVAN View Post
    ...
    There is obviously no way a 20, 30, or 40% failure rate is sustainable for a business. If that were the case, in reality, Kimber would be out of business by now.
    ...
    ========================

    I think a company can "make it" inspite of a high failure rate because honestly, most people don't shoot their guns. I've got 3 friends that bought "Pro Carry's" in the panic last year and I'd bet they don't have 500 rounds total through all three guns together. Yah! to them Kimber's are fantastic.

    Perfect example of a company "making it" inspite of problems are the 30+ years that Remington has made their Centerfire Autos Models 742 & 7400. The packaging-ADL, BDL, Deluxe, etc. keep them selling but they are seldom shot. I have never met anyone that has shot more than 200 rounds (10-boxes) through one.

    When I worked at a gun shop, when a 742 or 7400 would come in for trade, I would ask how many rounds they shot and they would say 100's of round but with a little prying they would say something like, "...they bought 2-3 boxes when the gun was new 10-years ago and 1 box last year...". IMO - They are so flimsy and barely held together that I'd reckon 500-rounds and it would come apart but they look good (if you like that California-look - I don't).

    I think most of the reports we get on M4C are serious users shooting 1000's of rounds. The problem is does the average guy that goes out to shoot 3-4 pistols really remember a stovepipe or two in a particular gun? I think most guys just write it off a FTF/FTE to ammo or to limp wristing or to dirt or to break-in but don't hold the gun "accountable".

    One thing about the Kimbers is that they are beautifully fit and finished guns (packaging), so they keep selling and not getting shot. But for being such a nice expensive gun, I sure see a lot of used ones for sell. Makes me wonder if they are so great, why do so many people get rid of them??

    But maybe it's just me...

    .
    Last edited by ucrt; 09-26-10 at 15:55. Reason: Clarity

  10. #50
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    If they are not bad enough problems to be returned then they are non-issues to that user. The way the problems are reported all over the internet, you've got 100,000 Kimbers going back for work every week.

    We all know that's not the case. We also know they are having more problems than they did before. Only Kimber can give the empirical data in that regard, and why would they reveal that to anyone. Everything else is anecdotal, but allows people to be more informed that they may be taking on a project versus an out of the box HD or duty gun.

    For instance I know a lot of people who have Kimbers that work, yet I'm still hesitant to recommend them, unless I tell people about their current "issues".
    "I'm not saying I invented the turtleneck. But I was the first person to realize its potential as a tactical garment. The tactical turtleneck! The... tactleneck! - Sterling Archer"
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    "Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgment that something else is more important
    than one's fear. The timid presume it is lack of fear that allows the brave to act when the timid do not."

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