AAR Rob Haught Tac Shotgun 9/25-9/26/10, Fuquay-Varina, NC

[Rob Haught]

Just back at work after a long ride home last nite. The class went very well from my perspective. Its always a pleasure to have a group that is as dialed in as this one. We were able to take the program to its limits without any concerns about leaving anyone behind. Weather was pretty warm on TD1 but we coaxed the rain gods into waiting until we were almost done on TD2 before the sky opened up. We had the usual blend of Rem 870's and Mossbergs with a lone Benelli this time. There were no major equipment issues which is testimony to the reliability of these two shotguns as we pounded them pretty hard. Ammo always is a mix of WalMart promo ammo and service loads. Quality control on the promo stuff can vary greatly with some experiencing some extraction issues.

The Drakes Landing facility has a lot of promise for training in the future. Hopefully they will get some shelter for shade on the range I was at as it was a little brutal on Sat.

My thanks to Grey Group for setting this one up and for AMP for all his help. And finally to all the students who worked hard to make this a great class.

Rob

[subzero]

I’ll start off by saying I am not a fan of the shotgun. I never have been. I’m not a hunter, just a guy who likes to shoot. I’ve skipped a few side matches because they were shotgun stages. I’d rather shoot the carbine, I’d always say.

That having been said, I was looking forward to this class for a long time. Ask the instructors who know their stuff where to get shotgun training, and you’ll get Rob Haught as an answer if not THE answer. This class got scheduled months in advance and I knew there was no way I would miss it, especially after I missed a previous class in Ohio.

Instead of giving a blow-by-blow of what we did, I’m going to talk about some of the things I learned about running the shotgun and related equipments and issues I saw.

MY GEAR:

Benelli M1 Super 90 with shortened PG stock, “modicated" Tac Star sidesaddle, ghost rings, BFG Victory sling.

Remington 870 with shortened straight stock, Mesa 6 shot side saddle, 2 shot mag extension, ghost rings, BFG Victory sling.

Everyone in the class used a pump action shotgun. I was the only jabronie to use an autoloader during the class. I spent roughly one day with the Benelli, 1 day with the 870.

I had one FTE with the 870 where a round stuck and required mortaring to remove. The Benelli was flawless. I witnessed numerous issues with other people’s rigs and stuck rounds. Setups ranged from the most basic setup imaginable to the highest end “tactical” guns.

WHAT I LEARNED: TECHNIQUES

I think the biggest thing I took away from the class was that I had been shooting shotguns wrong. I think the big reason shotguns have fallen out of favor compared to the carbine is simple: carbines are easier to shoot. That little change makes all the difference in the world. Using Rob’s technique to minimize felt recoil makes the shotgun a much more usable tool, IMO. Now you can train with it instead of calling it a day after getting beat up 50 shots in. And as soon as you learn his technique, you’ll know any time you do it wrong, because shooting it without his technique gives you a gentle reminder that you just screwed up. I’m not going to pretend I think the shotgun is better than a carbine, but I think Rob’s technique vastly expands the usefulness of the shotgun, so much so that it makes me re-think some of the applications I would use a carbine for.

After 2 days I didn’t have a bruise on my shoulder (well, I had one on top of my shoulder, from a round of buck I forgot to punch out on) but my hands had taken up a lot of the recoil. I think that’s the tradeoff. I can take that.

On a side note, both the push-pull and “CQB” positions are easily adaptable to other long guns. I will be playing with this idea in the future.

WHAT I LEARNED: EQUIPMENT

Oh my, so much. First off, taking this class using an autoloader is kind of cheating. That is, you’re not getting the full value of your training dollar. That having been said, I was the only jabronie using an autoloader. I love my Benelli. For a long time it was my only shotgun. Shooting it during this class allowed me to focus on the technique instead of the extra little brainpower I needed to remember to rack the slide. Plus, it’s easier. Having said that, you have to bring a pump gun to this class, preferably an 870. Not doing so is kind of like showing up at an AR class with an AK. Yes, you can get by. But the class is geared towards a different gun than yours, so don’t be That Guy.

I liked Rob’s “friendly ghost” mod for the Scattergun Tech rear sight. I would hack mine into that but I’d be worried about damaging the tritium vials. I was surprised to hear Rob’s thoughts on magazine extensions. If I’ve learned anything about the shotgun prior to the class, it was that keeping it fed was the key to using it. Thus, I expected 2 or 3 round extensions to be considered mandatory. Not so. I was surprised (and pleased) to hear that he thought they ruined the balance of the gun. I agree, but I was so convinced before the class that the extras were necessary so I put it on anyway.

I was glad there was a guy there with a Vang barrel, as I had been wondering how Flite Control would shoot through that. Vang Comp barrels make cheap buckshot shoot like FC out of a normal barrel. A Vang barrel with FC buck in it is the Cadillac of the shotgun world. If I had to carry a shotgun professionally, I would be sending my barrel to Hans today, and putting a case of FC buck on my personal credit card. It’s pretty damn impressive. Since I don’t, I’ll just stick with buying FC for my defensive needs.

After this class I will be taking the side saddles off both of my guns. The modified Tac Star on the Benelli actually came loose but I caught it before it fell off. I thought I had Loctited it before but I reapplied at the range. The Mesa didn’t loosen, but I witness marked the screws and I had movement on one set even though both ends were Loctited. I’m not a fan of side saddles to begin with. I thought Rob gave us some compelling reasons to have one (reloads off the side saddle are noticeably faster than off the belt or out of a bag) but since my shotguns are for fun only, I feel like I can indulge my preference and take them off.

I wouldn’t spend a given dime on the highest end mule kicker or other recoil reducing widget.

I like pistol grip stocks. I only saw one other fellow out there with a PG stock though. I thought it was especially nice when we were shooting from the CQB position, since my wrist wasn’t cranked over as hard as the people with straight stocks.

MISC

The pistol pit at Drake’s Landing has been split, so it now has two ~20 yard wide bays with a 3 sided berm around it. That change meant we’d all be a little closer to each other than I had thought, but it was no big deal at all. Just a note for anyone who’s had a class out there before, the range doesn’t look the same as it used to. They could really use some shelter and picnic tables in the area though.

We had interesting weather. It was hot as the blazes Saturday, over 95 and only the occasional breeze. Little gnats all up in your face and ears all day. Annoying. Sunday it got cooler and was overcast part of the day, but it started raining over the last hour of class and we ended up packing up our vehicles in a downpour. That was fun.

Aside from Rob’s personal 14” blaster, only one other NFA shotgun showed up. I found that a little surprising.

The ratio of ghost rings to bead sights seemed to be about 1:1.

OVERALL

I’m very glad I took the course. It’s really the first time I’ve stepped out of my comfort zone and taken a class in something I wasn’t necessarily a big fan of. This makes me wonder how much I’d enjoy one of those “Southnarc” courses where people try to beat each other up.

Thanks to Rob and his AI Tom for coming out. Thanks to my fellow students for making it a fun class and an enjoyable weekend. And thanks to Grey Group and Paul Hotaling for putting together another great training opportunity.

[VA_Dinger]

Great AAR, I've got the photos and they should be going up this afternoon.

[Amp Mangum]

I had heard about Rob's shotgun technique for years and couldn't wait to take the class. When guys like Ken Hackathorn and Scott Warren tell you that Rob is "The Man" when it comes to shotguns you need to pay attention. Rob did not disappoint. He is a wizard with the scattergun. It was amazing to see him hammer steel targets with a 14" shotgun shooting buckshot as fast as most guys shoot a handgun. His "Push/Pull" system of managing recoil really works. When you can shoot a 12ga. pump shotgun and stand on one leg while doing it without getting knocked over, you know the technique works. After 2 days of shooting a 12ga. Remington 870 I wasn't sore or bruised up. I had a very small bruise from one time when I didn't properly apply the "push/pull" but like Rob says, "it's self correcting".
We were shooting buckshot loads from Rob's CQB position which places the butt stock on top of your shoulder with the gun laying flat and no one in the class got a bloody lip. By the end of day 2 my confidence level with the shotgun had gone way up and my eyes have been opened to the shotguns usefulness.

Federal "Flite-Control" buckshot is the way to go for buckshot. That is some amazing stuff.

Many thanks to Rob and his AI Tom for getting me up to speed and thanks to Paul at Grey Group for putting it together.

[VA_Dinger]

www.greygrouptraining.com

The start of the class photos;

Special thanks to Chris914 for the photos.

[VA_Dinger]

www.greygrouptraining.com




























More photos coming shortly.

[TOrrock]

Excellent write up S_Z.

Your thoughts mimic what I took away from the class I had with Rob in OH last year, although I'm keeping the side saddle on my 870.

I need to pony up and get an 18" barrel and 1 shot extension for my 870P, the 20" and 3 shot extension on mine makes it feel like a musket.

I've said it before and I'll say it again......if you have a shotgun, you really ought to make it a point to take one of Rob Haught's classes.

As far as equipment.....the FTE's that were mentioned....was there a rhyme or reason that could be traced? More Mossbergs or Remingtons that went down?

[Amp Mangum]

Most of the malfunctions were ammo related (failure to extract). The quality control on the value pack ammo is hit or miss. None of the guns went down and we ran them hard.

[cfrazier]

Being from the same area as Rob and Tom and able to see them at local matches and a fan of the shotgun. I have been looking forward to this class for several years. The insights of Rob on the set up of the shotgun with a shorter stock has me looking for a new stock. The use of sidesaddles for me is a strength of the gun and will continue to use them. But with a change of how I set the ammo in them will change. Half with brass up and half down so to access them easier from either in position or out of postion during reloading.

And for the Federal Flitecontrol ammo, as Amp said impressive. I think that this development in ammo will only enhance the strengths of the shotgun. Giving an additional 10-15 yds. with buckshot is impressive.

[chris914]

As far as equipment.....the FTE's that were mentioned....was there a rhyme or reason that could be traced? More Mossbergs or Remingtons that went down?

It seemed to be traced back to the promotional pack Winchester Universal ammo. I switched to Federal on TD2 with no further issues.