LMT MWS as a sniper rifle?

[Sensei]

So for an average of 5, 5 shots groups, the OBR is under 0.5 MOA?

Yes. A search of the forum will show multiple threads documenting sub-0.5 MOA with a number of OBRs and KAC guns. Look for threads with KevinB.

[rsilvers]

Yes. A search of the forum will show multiple threads documenting sub-0.5 MOA with a number of OBRs and KAC guns. Look for threads with KevinB.

I just searched and I cannot find any documentation. Can anyone just show me one OBR link which documents a 5x5 group under 0.5 MOA?

[KentuckyRifle]

Dont understand your USMC comment. The USMC runs the M40 bolt gun.

The USMC also fields the MK11 Mod 0, as does the Navy. The US Army uses the M110, the IDF uses a variant of the SR-25 (not sure which). Of course the UK MOD now uses the LMTMWS. And if memory serves me correctly, M4C member LittleLebowski's brother was a USMC sniper who wrote a couple of very nice articles about his preference for the SASS over the other options he had.

Seems you really want a battle rifle and to be a sniper so have at it. If you desire 1MOA then PASS on the LMT 16" with chrome lined barrel. Mine will not do it 100% of the time with factory or reloads. I assume you will have to shoot factory rounds?

The factory SOPMOD stock sucks for prone/precision work. The trigger is not that great either. 20 round mags are to long for many true "sniper" applications. Plan on trading out the factory flash hider as well as the rifle jumps all over the place and does not allow for fast follow up shots.

For $2400 your getting a reliable 308 blaster/battle rifle which it seems your really after. Bought mine to play with and be a "games" gun. Hopefully after new barrel options are released next year the accuracy will improve. Nothing about this rifle out of the box is right for use with the word sniper rifle.

This is good info, exactly what I was looking for. Makes me think I would be money ahead to save for an OBR.

Remember you asked us and all the comments made so far have been more than fair.

No I would say that

I dont think you are ready for "sniper school" if you have to put much thought on what rifle to get. An AR platform would be the first system to cross out of your list.

is at best ignorant and borderline insulting.

[Sensei]

I just searched and I cannot find any documentation. Can anyone just show me one OBR link which documents a 5x5 group under 0.5 MOA?

KevinB posted groups from five different shooters firing 5-rounds with a SR25-EMC and each shooter was under 0.5 MOA. I believe RidgeDog had a few targets at or under 0.5 MOA with an OBR (he advertises more and better results but no pics). Sorry that I can't copy the link, but I'm operating remotely with an iPhone on 3G.

FWIW, Larue advertises sub-MOA and I've not met an OBR user who is not getting significantly better results.

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

From the other side of the equation. If I'm a citizen and I'm in a situation where I need a police sniper, I want a guy with a bolt gun showing up. Iron ball reliable compared to gas guns, consistent accuracy with no worries. Sure we all like gas guns, and who wouldn't like to able to lay down 20 rounds of 308 hurt in a few seconds- but for situations where my loved ones are on the line and there are no second chances, KISS.

As to accuracy, I'd go with LittleLewbowski's brothers write up about gas gun accuracy and his experience in Iraq. Can't find the link right now.

[rsilvers]

KevinB posted groups from five different shooters firing 5-rounds with a SR25-EMC and each shooter was under 0.5 MOA. I believe RidgeDog had a few targets at or under 0.5 MOA with an OBR (he advertises more and better results but no pics). Sorry that I can't copy the link, but I'm operating remotely with an iPhone on 3G.

FWIW, Larue advertises sub-MOA and I've not met an OBR user who is not getting significantly better results.

Can you show the results of shooting where the OBR has shot 5 consecutive groups of 5 shots each, for which the average group size was under 0.5 MOA? And then if so, can you show that this is typical?

If not, it is hard to say it is a 0.5 MOA rifle.

[rushca01]

Can you show the results of shooting where the OBR has shot 5 consecutive groups of 5 shots each, for which the average group size was under 0.5 MOA? And then if so, can you show that this is typical?

If not, it is hard to say it is a 0.5 MOA rifle.

Drop in on Mark's section on TOS and I'm sure you will find all the evidence you need.

I have an LMT MWS and it's prob a MOA at best (at least with the chrome lined barrel) gun but I believe the OBR without a doubt is a Sub MOA gun. I say this being an MWS owner and not a OBR owner.

[rsilvers]

Drop in on Mark's section on TOS and I'm sure you will find all the evidence you need.

I have an LMT MWS and it's prob a MOA at best (at least with the chrome lined barrel) gun but I believe the OBR without a doubt is a Sub MOA gun. I say this being an MWS owner and not a OBR owner.

I looked. Can't find anything on the 308. On the 5.56mm it is a 3.6 MOA rifle.

Here is the proof:

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.htm...f=219&t=194829

[Sensei]

Can you show the results of shooting where the OBR has shot 5 consecutive groups of 5 shots each, for which the average group size was under 0.5 MOA? And then if so, can you show that this is typical?

If not, it is hard to say it is a 0.5 MOA rifle.

Not really all that hard because I do not limit my experience to this forum.

I'd say that there is enough experience in the general shooting community with the OBR and SR25-EMC to support the conclusion that they are among the 2 most accurate 16" AR platforms in 308. In addition, the evidence suggests that these systems can surpass 0.5 MOA with the right shooter and ammo - even if it is not posted on the Internet.

[Shane45]

From the other side of the equation. If I'm a citizen and I'm in a situation where I need a police sniper, I want a guy with a bolt gun showing up. Iron ball reliable compared to gas guns, consistent accuracy with no worries. Sure we all like gas guns, and who wouldn't like to able to lay down 20 rounds of 308 hurt in a few seconds- but for situations where my loved ones are on the line and there are no second chances, KISS.

As to accuracy, I'd go with LittleLewbowski's brothers write up about gas gun accuracy and his experience in Iraq. Can't find the link right now.

I find your reasoning curious. I think you may be overlooking the scenario in your minds eye as being the only scenario. I would have no problem with a gas gun equiped sniper. I can think of many scenarios in the urban invironment where a semi would possibly be better suited. Think about the chinese gang in Cali. Sniper missed the shot through plate glass. The BG's sumarily executed the hostages. If he was on a semi, he may have been able to have faster follow up shots and have saved several.....