Military Times article on new 300 AAC BLACKOUT

[Nevermiss]

Nevermiss have you tried PF Customs, I know their out of Asheville but I think they mostly deal with Gemtech. Also you can try Shooters Express near Gastonia. Hope this helps.

I called PF Customs, but I haven't heard back from them in over a week. I will give Shooters Express a call.

[welchtactical]

I know the guys at Shooter's Express. I have done buisness with them for years. Good guys. Talk to Terry or Dean. I might swing out there tomorrow.

[fastpat]

Grendel bolts last - what - 1000 rounds?

6.5 Grendel bolts last the normal expected life of an AR bolt.

And they do not feed well from AR mags.

Grendel rounds do not feed much at all from a 5.56 magazine.

The major issue when compared to the 300BLK is the Grendel mag capacity is "only" 25 rounds, whereas the 300BLK is 30 rounds.

Ballistics.

Image from the 300 AAC Blackout web site, Whisper image from SSK Industries web site.



I can see the .30 bore to go to heavy projectiles for subsonic function, but as the old .280 British demonstrated, the 7mm bore is more efficient, possibly the best compromise of ballistic coefficient versus bullet weights available to us. Aren't 7mm/.284 bullets of up to 190gr. for a subsonic round available? Interesting info about the 7mm Whisper on Jane's Ammunition Handbook web site.

[jmart]

6.5 Grendel bolts last the normal expected life of an AR bolt. Grendel rounds do not feed much at all from a 5.56 magazine.

The major issue when compared to the 300BLK is the Grendel mag capacity is "only" 25 rounds, whereas the 300BLK is 30 rounds.

Ballistics.

Image from the 300 AAC Blackout web site, Whisper image from SSK Industries web site.



I can see the .30 bore to go to heavy projectiles for subsonic function, but as the old .280 British demonstrated, the 7mm bore is more efficient, possibly the best compromise of ballistic coefficient versus bullet weights available to us. Aren't 7mm/.284 bullets of up to 190gr. for a subsonic round available? Interesting info about the 7mm Whisper on Jane's Ammunition Handbook web site.

And herein you've just highlighted how in similar setups, the Grendel isn't the end all, be all platform. When launched from 16" barrels, the Grendel barely improves upon the starting velocity of the Blackout. It has a better BC bullet, so it will carry better down range, but it's still being launched at under 2400 fps.

Much of the Grendel's reputation for down range performance has come about from using much longer barreled weapons. This data shows the extra 8" of barrel is good for about 150 yards improvement. But while the 24" barrel data is impressive, who carries around 24" barreled weapons?

[msstate56]

I agree with jmart. The ballistics look like the 6.5 grendel out of "combat" length barrels is not really any better than the 300 BLK. I bet that 300 BLK will outperform 6.5 grendel out of an SBR barrel. Fastpat just showed me why there is no need for me to even consider 6.5 grendel as a patrol rifle round. I'm liking this new round more and more. I can't wait until I can get ahold of a barrel and some ammo to give it a shot (I know bad pun).

[fastpat]

I agree with jmart. The ballistics look like the 6.5 grendel out of "combat" length barrels is not really any better than the 300 BLK. I bet that 300 BLK will outperform 6.5 grendel out of an SBR barrel. Fastpat just showed me why there is no need for me to even consider 6.5 grendel as a patrol rifle round. I'm liking this new round more and more. I can't wait until I can get ahold of a barrel and some ammo to give it a shot (I know bad pun).

Actually, what I demonstrated is that if keeping the 5.56x45mm case head diameter is a basic criteria, then either the 6.5x35mm or 7x35mm Whisper rounds would have been a better choice than the 7.62x35mm. I suspect the real reason for choosing the .30 caliber bullet is to satisfy those that think that caliber is somehow sacred in America.

The 7x35mm, or 7mm Whisper, was designed as a suppressed round. Using the 60+ year old .280 British data together with modern powders and bullets would make for even more impressive results over the British experience.

Of course, I realize that's not going to happen now, not with the high bucks that have already been committed to the 300 BLK.

[DocGKR]

As noted during the initial SPC testing in 2002 and as shown in every wound ballistic test of the last 120 years, 7 mm is the most destructive and efficient caliber that can be fit into an assault rifle type cartridge and still have both good intermediate range accuracy (out to 600m or so) and maintain adequate control in short range full auto fire.

[jmart]

I agree with jmart. The ballistics look like the 6.5 grendel out of "combat" length barrels is not really any better than the 300 BLK. I bet that 300 BLK will outperform 6.5 grendel out of an SBR barrel. Fastpat just showed me why there is no need for me to even consider 6.5 grendel as a patrol rifle round. I'm liking this new round more and more. I can't wait until I can get ahold of a barrel and some ammo to give it a shot (I know bad pun).

There's an infallible ballistic truth. It's that when comparing equal barrel lengths, equal bullet weights and equal pressures, you can get greater velocity from a larger diameter bullet than a smaller diameter bullet.

For CQB applications the Blackout probably would perform better than the Grendel. But for a general purpose application, where you are evaluating longer range performance as well, then the Grendel takes over due to it's better BC bullets. It's all about your requirements and how you weight performance at selected ranges that guides which cartridge you think is better.

I'm just pointing out that the Grendel has developed some sort of mythical reputation for being the flattest shooting round imaginable, but when you look at its ballistics from real world barrel lengths, the picture becomes clearer and it's not so mythical after all. Run it through a 20" or greater barrelled AR and it shines. Run it from a carbine and its OK, but I don't think it's anything special.

There's only so much you can do with 30 grains of powder.

[Todd.K]

I suspect the real reason for choosing the .30 caliber bullet is to satisfy those that think that caliber is somehow sacred in America.

How popular is the 7W compared to the 300W/300-221?

[DocGKR]

"There's only so much you can do with 30 grains of powder."

Physics is an immutable truth...as well as a real bitch that will bite folks when ignored.

"I suspect the real reason for choosing the .30 caliber bullet is to satisfy those that think that caliber is somehow sacred in America."

Or just maybe it was chosen because the specifications of the end-user organization that requested the cartridge required a .30 caliber projectile...