1-4X optics on ARs

[hjmpanzr]

First, I am by no means a photographer, but it does have sufficient illumination in sunlight. Second, why use illumination with sunlight ? Illumination is really only needed with low light conditions, the black reticle is much more pronounced during daylight.

Different scope but I've had the same experience as deadduck.
I run a nightforce 1-4x24 with the FC-2 reticle (illuminated). I never use the illumination unless it is low light conditions because I just don't need it. But the FC-2 is very similar to an RDS and very easy to point and shoot.

[Alaskapopo]

First, I am by no means a photographer, but it does have sufficient illumination in sunlight. Second, why use illumination with sunlight ? Illumination is really only needed with low light conditions, the black reticle is much more pronounced during daylight.

First none of the pics had the scope itself in bright sunlight but rather in the shadow looking into a lit area. Big difference. Second an illuminated reticle draws your eye faster and you can apply the bindon point aiming concept. For guns where I need to shoot fast I only want a daylight visible illuminated reticle.
Pat

[deadduck357]

First none of the pics had the scope itself in bright sunlight but rather in the shadow looking into a lit area. Big difference. Second an illuminated reticle draws your eye faster and you can apply the bindon point aiming concept. For guns where I need to shoot fast I only want a daylight visible illuminated reticle.
Pat

Not arguing your point, just I suck at taking pictures, especially through a scope trying to focus on both the target and reticle and keep scope straight and proper distance and centered to the camera lens. Pictures aside the reticle does have sufficient illumination for daylight use, no it's not glowing super bright but its there. As for me I prefer a black reticle for daylight use.

[bp7178]

Bindon Aiming Concept works really good in flash animation on Trijicon's site and flat ranges in daylight. Outside of that, not so much. I like the Trijicon kool-aid, just not that flavor.

Our vision is attracted to light, but it doesn't mean every scope needs to be daylight bright to be effective.

IMO, if daylight visible aiming points are that important to you, esp given the dismal battery life of any 1-4x, there are better solutions on the market.

[Alaskapopo]

Bindon Aiming Concept works really good in flash animation on Trijicon's site and flat ranges in daylight. Outside of that, not so much. I like the Trijicon kool-aid, just not that flavor.

Our vision is attracted to light, but it doesn't mean every scope needs to be daylight bright to be effective.

IMO, if daylight visible aiming points are that important to you, esp given the dismal battery life of any 1-4x, there are better solutions on the market.

Actually BAC works pretty well in real life too if you understand how to use it and shoot with both eyes open. Also given the choice between a black reticle that is slower for me vs a lit one that is faster I will take the lit one every time. Different strokes for different folks.

The best choice for general purpose optics are low power variables. I prefer the Swarovski 1-6. If the batteries go dead due to user negligence no big deal you can still use the slower but workable un lit reticle.
Pat

[Alaskapopo]

Not arguing your point, just I suck at taking pictures, especially through a scope trying to focus on both the target and reticle and keep scope straight and proper distance and centered to the camera lens. Pictures aside the reticle does have sufficient illumination for daylight use, no it's not glowing super bright but its there. As for me I prefer a black reticle for daylight use.

No worries I know how hard it is to take pictures of scope reticles. You almost need a rifle rest and a tri pod to do it right. As for black reticles. I can make them work but as I stated I prefer a lit reticle.
Pat

[bp7178]

Actually BAC works pretty well in real life too if you understand how to use it and shoot with both eyes open.

That kind of makes the assumption that I don't. I understand the concept, and I don't even shoot pistols with one eye closed.

BAC works better on paper than in actual use. Ask anyone issued a TA31.

Either way, optics are still on the low end of the equation when it comes to the gunfight. When we talk about speed on forums we are really splitting hairs. If you really want to be faster take care of yourself physically so you can survive and maintain preformance during the fight.

[Alaskapopo]

That kind of makes the assumption that I don't. I understand the concept, and I don't even shoot pistols with one eye closed.

BAC works better on paper than in actual use. Ask anyone issued a TA31.

Either way, optics are still on the low end of the equation when it comes to the gunfight. When we talk about speed on forums we are really splitting hairs. If you really want to be faster take care of yourself physically so you can survive and maintain preformance during the fight.

BAC works out differently for different people you are broadly dismissing it and my experience has shown it to work. Maybe not for you. The TA31 has other issues that make it slower to use like a short eye relief and its really not the best optic to judge BAC by. If you want to be faster you should practice those skills. Physical fittness is great but it won't mean crap if I as a fat guy nail you first because I shoot faster and better. Not saying fitness is not important but its not related to this topic. Last summer I shot a fair amount of three gun matches. The match in Fairbanks was set up by a former Army soldier who wanted to beat me so he put a lot of running into his stages. At one point there was a 75 yard dash. I came in first. He came over to me and said he could not believe I out ran him. He is thin and trim and I am about 80 pounds over weight. I told him I did not run faster I just shot faster and better which allowed me to beat him. (less time spent shooting for me and more time spent running) The point being is fitness is not the end all be all when it comes to shooting. But I am working on that area.
Pat

[bp7178]

I've owned both a Trijicon TA31F and a TR24G. So my comments are based on my time with both optics. Both are great in their respective roles. The reason I sold them off, is that I find they are less than ideal in mixed lighting environments. Between the two, the TR24G is much more versitile. IMO, the TR24G is one of the best values going in optics currently on the market.

My point was, regarding fitness, is that hardware is only one end of the equation. I think guys get too wrapped up on which product is better, and forget the rest.

Ones ability to survive in a gun fight is more than speed.

I work with enough fat cops to know that one can't dismiss someone on physical ability alone.

[Alaskapopo]

I've owned both a Trijicon TA31F and a TR24G. So my comments are based on my time with both optics. Both are great in their respective roles. The reason I sold them off, is that I find they are less than ideal in mixed lighting environments. Between the two, the TR24G is much more versitile. IMO, the TR24G is one of the best values going in optics currently on the market.

My point was, regarding fitness, is that hardware is only one end of the equation. I think guys get too wrapped up on which product is better, and forget the rest.

Ones ability to survive in a gun fight is more than speed.

I work with enough fat cops to know that one can't dismiss someone on physical ability alone.

I too think the TR24 is a great scope for the money. If they added a bullet drop it would be almost perfect.
Pat