1-4X optics on ARs

[nickdrak]

I run a Trijicon TR24G (Green Triangle) 1-4x on one of my duty rifles. I have been running it for a little over a year now.

There are only a couple of areas where I would say it is less than ideal.

1. Weight. It is comparable to other variable power scopes on the market, but by design they are going to weigh more than your typical reddot sights. This is a "No-brainer".

2. Reticle Illumination: I have not found ANY situation where the triangle reticle isn't plainly visible. Some situations where you are shooting from a dark area into a well lit area can make it difficult to see the green illumination, but the triangle reticle is etched into the glass, so the worst case is that you will see the triangle as black. This is not as big a deal as some try to make it out to be.

3. Unconventional shooting positions: Getting a good sight picture thru the AccuPoint when shooting from "Roll-over Prone" or "Urban prone", or other unconventional shooting positions can be somewhat of a challenge when you have the magnification dialed up to 4x. On 1x it works as well as any reddot for me. Realistically, I haven't found a practical scenario where I would require the scope to be powered up to 4x when fighting around a vehicle and when using the aforementioned shooting positions. Is it a possiblity for you? I dunno, maybe.

As far as CQB work goes, I have found that the big green triangle reticle is super fast to pick up. I have grown completely used to this scope/reticle combo over the past year.

I have found that on all of the common CQB drills that I run during training: VTAC Half & Half, 1-5, 2x2x2, etc., I am as fast, or actually slightly faster with the TR24G as I am with my Eotech. Of course, I have been running this scope for over a year now, and it took alittle time to get used to it as it was my first 1-4x scope. I run it with both eyes open on 1x, and there are no issues.

I have mine mounted in the "High" LaRue LT-135 1.93" height mount. This mount works great for CQB stuff as it gives me a more "Heads-up" field of view which I prefer. Again, the big green triangle is super fast, and if you train with it enough to get used to it, I think you will find that there is ZERO speed penalty during CQB work with the TR24G.

As has already been mentioned, another huge benefit of running a 1-4x variable power scope is target/threat identification. You can simply see more detail out past 100yds on 4x than you can with a 1x Aimpoint or Eotech. Is it a "Bad-Guy" with a carbine walking towards your position from 250yds, or is it a Plain-clothes "Good-Guy"???

[rainman]

This is why you need three uppers...

one with a big scope for looong shots

one with a 1-4x for "most everything"

and one with an eotech or aimpoint and a flashlight for home def

Not three uppers...three complete ARs!

Okay, maybe three uppers initially...but as budget allows, not a bad idea to put lowers under all of them.


-Rainman

[TehLlama]

The short-mid-long: It's an extremely logical solution. It's logical on a budget to have the long range share a lower with the mid range unit, and it doesn't hurt to have the short and multi-use units to share configurations.

I've got a 10.5" Mk18-ish set up identical to a 14.5", and these can both share a can with my Mk12-ish setup. This works brilliantly.

Recently I've gone and larded up this setup with lots of extra mid-range lightweight units, but the same principles do apply, and I happen to like this general setup.

We'll keep seeing more and more new low power variables, and once somebody comes out with something between the TR24 and S&B Short Dot (in weight, features, and price) that will become a dominant optic.

[wild_wild_wes]

Then where does the Short-Mid-Long paradigm leave the ACOG? Until now, I considered them to be the ultimate General Purpose unspecialized optic, due to their size, weight, and ruggedness.

[rob_s]

Nick, I really want to spend some time with one of those TR24Gs. Wish you were in my A/O. I know someone locally that has one and I should see if I can con them out of loaning it to me for a class.

I ran a compact ACOG 3x for quite a long time. It had some shortcomings in terms of indoor illumination but adding a scope cover and flipping it down indoors or reduced light helped exponentially. I bet a green reticule would help even more. I'd really like to spend some time with a TA33gh and may yet see about trying to swap out my red chevron 3x for one.

The 1.x-Y optics appear to have a pretty strong following in IPSC 3-gun. Not sure if that's a clue or a red herring though. I've always had a hard time getting past the weight issue.

My suspicion is that we'll see a 1:4 Aimpoint solution in a package the size of the M4s at SHOT '11 or '12. Might prove interesting, but I'm not sure how people will feel about the 2 MOA dot at distance covering 4" @ 200 yards. I suspect those shooting bullseyes will object and those shooting humans may not.

[Mo_Zam_Beek]

This is why you need three uppers...

one with a big scope for looong shots

one with a 1-4x for "most everything"

and one with an eotech or aimpoint and a flashlight for home def

I used to think this too. I said good bye to an RRA 20" and a Noveske 18" last week. Now I am down to 16"s and SBRs. I could easily go to 16's only. Ringing steel at 600+ was the convincer for me - 16" -> 20" is a pathetic 'tink'.


The right 1-4 changes everything.

It has to be daylight visible under all conditions at 1x.

It has to be able to range and allow you to shoot hold offs and overs with conventional math for such tasks - this is where proprietary reticles fall short.

It has to have bombproof reliability.



For the cost of setting up those three uppers (even pretty minimally) you could set up one true ass kicker - the best upper, the best 1-4, the best mounts, a white light, and a real honest to God laser or a can.






Good luck

[nickdrak]

One more "issue" I forgot to cover....

The "Big Green Triangle" reticle on the TR24G is not optimal when shooting at distances out past about 200yds. Make no mistake about it, this ain't no precision rifle scope. It does however work well at making good hits on human sized targets out to 300+ yards. You just need to know your hold-offs.

[J-Dub]

I went with a weaver 1-3x20mm in a burris pepr mount. For what i use my are for, its perfect. I was really suprised how light the weaver is...and its price was great too.

My carbine is primarily used for hunting, i dont plan on making shots longer than 300yds so 3x is all i need.

I just like the 1-4 (or 1-3) powered scopes is the versatility..

[armakraut]

The only thing I've learned from my very minimal experience on 1-4x optics is that they tend to stay at 1x most of the time. In the same way an ACOG is way faster at closer ranges with the lens cap on. Essentially you could be running an aimpoint or armson OEG for at least half the money and weight, and much better battery life.

However, you can get a very fast reticle on a traditional scope that isn't reliant on batteries, sort of worth the price of admission for many people. You can also get a rugged, fast, non-illuminated 1-4x scope mounted on your carbine for the price of any aimpoint.

[DBR]

I like the Leupold 1-4X (actually more like 1.6-4 actual) "shotgun" scopes for a magnified optic on an AR. The heavy duplex reticule is easy to see with a gun mounted light. I use a Surefire 6P with a Malkoff LED conversion for my gun light and at "1X" the eye relief and exit pupil of the optic are very forgiving of head position.

My "go to" AR is an iron sighted 16" with an XS Sights tritium Big Dot front sight. Using the small rear aperture I can shoot 2"-3"groups at 50yds in day light using the top of the post and at closer ranges or in low light using the large aperture I can just center the dot on the target and get MOF (minute of felon) accuracy.

I have experienced fogging or occlusion by rain or snow too many times during my 50yrs of shooting to ever trust any sight with glass in it in an extreme weather situation. In the hot weather they can fog going from air conditioned to ambient humid conditions and they can be useless in the rain or heavy snow.

For me - 1-4X or similar for situations where you can reasonably predict the conditions - irons for any other time if your life depends on it.