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Thread: Lubrication Issues

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmart View Post
    Thanks for the detailed response. I asked this simply out of curiosity and it's apparent it depends on your jurisdiction and your dept policies regarding frequency of PM maint.

    In your case, sounds as if it's entirely up to each officer to make sure it's lubed. I guess it's guaranteed one good cleaning/lubing annually, whether it needs it or not.

    After reading this thread and taking it all in, do you think full timers in your dept let the carbines sit for prolonged periods in between PM lubes? Anyone try to take that weapon and go through annual quals without prepping it in any way? I'm always curious how long a cleaned weapon that's lubed with CLP, how long that lube will remian effective if the weapon sits in the rack. 2 weeks? 1 month? At some point does the lube evaporate, gum up or settle out and lose its effectiveness? I would assume that grunts over in the sandbox have no such problem since they maintain their weapons daily, but I'm really curious what civilian's LE policies are and whether or not they been demonstrated to prove effective when it comes time to pull the trigger. God knows I'd be less than confident if at the time I NEEDED my carbine, it was then I realized the last time this carbine was lubed may have been 5 months ago.
    Hi again jmart, I was meaning to ask some other guys casually about how well/often they lube but never found the right occasion. I guess we'll have the opportunity for self-criticism at rifle qual in two months. I have no knowledge as to how long a carbine can rest between lubes and still be GTG, other than (SHAME on me) there was a two-months stretch not so long ago when my carbine didn't make it out of the case due to too many "other important" things to do. When I finally came to my senses, my carbine fired a mag or two without problems without additional lubrication.

    Maybe it helps that my carbine rests horizontally. Our ceiling racks are horizontal too. I'm not sure if anybody has done any comparison tests as to whether lube drains off faster in vertical v. horizontal storage. I'm reasonably confident that everybody's carbine will be able to fire at least a few rounds, which is usually enough to resolve the dispute. We keep them in "cruiser safe," aka "cruiser ready," that is, empty chamber, loaded mag, selector on safe. Every time I take mine out of the case, I "air guitar" the charging handle and touch the selector to remind myself of what's necessary to be ready to fight.

    We don't have surprise range sessions, although it would be interesting if we did. We have one range for everybody in the county to use, and it happens to be behind the correctional institution that's in our county, so the state Dept of Correction likes to use it too. We have to schedule range time months in advance. But I think we all make time for what we really think is some required level of proficiency. Lots of guys are regular hunters and don't have any trouble bringing home meat, so they must be able to shoot at and hit live targets. I haven't been hunting in awhile but I live far out enough in the boonies that I can live-fire in the backyard. The last gunfight we had was five years ago, which we won, but then, don't mistake good luck for good tactics, and also it easily could have gone the other way--our guy was shot in the face and was out of service for a year.

    Next time is one day closer with every sunrise.
    When life gives you lemons, insert copper and zinc wires in them and repeatedly shock your tongue.

  2. #102
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    Do you think that since Slips Carbon Cleaner is water based that it could promote rust? I know your not supposed to leave it soaking in it for a long period but im wondering the what ifs?

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shihan View Post
    Do you think that since Slips Carbon Cleaner is water based that it could promote rust? I know your not supposed to leave it soaking in it for a long period but im wondering the what ifs?

    Carbon Cutter will strip any prior lube, so once you remove it from the soak you should wipe it dry and then lube/protect it. I don't know how long you'd need to soak it submerged before corrosion would begin forming, but I've found soaking 10-15 minutes is plenty to take care of cleaning chores and I've never seen any rust/corrosion.

  4. #104
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    Hello Pat,
    I truely enjoyed reading your article.Particularly the lube points you give for an assembled weapon....very handy tips.
    Its also good to see that I have not been doing wrong by running my weapons on the wet side. I caught all kinds of crap from armorers when I worked as an LEO. In fact at the academy inservice I was chastised more than once due to an armorer saying he did not want oil slicks on his shelf. Needless to say my oil slick,an early 92FS,ran perfectly without fail throughout every range session. The same could not be said about most others in the classes.
    I even caught crap at Palmyra during MP5 quals/SWAT training due to my somewhat moderate lube practices.Seems the "apply and wipe dry" ruled the roost for many years until recently.
    Ive argued the "wet is best" point over the years on several gun forums,but always got the "dry is best" due to debris attachment...that includes the folks doing corrosion tests with the various lubes.Seems that no one truely understands that a oil film is needed to work properly in all areas of concern.Not to mention the excessive wear that a weapon gets from too little lube...which has always been a primary concern of mine.
    At any rate thanks for the informative post...I will put it to good use.

    A little tip I picked up a few years ago that some here may appreciate...is to use a short handle 7/8" diameter stencil brush to apply lubricants.
    Mil-comm gets the credit for the tip as it was Gordon at Mil-comm who recommended the brushes for application of his TW25B. But it works perfectly with any lube and is very effective.
    The brush leaves a perfect film of lube on the weapons parts.If its too heavy just spread/paint the lube around a bit more.
    I keep one brush damp with lube on it and one that is dry which is good for removing dirt and debris from the weapon while in use in the field or at the range.
    I keep the brushes in polymer paint ball tubes,that way they do not get contaminated in the range bag and can even be carried in a vest or pants pocket etc..
    When they get dirty just wipe the chunks off with a cloth and clean with rubbing alcohol.Air dry and back in the tubes.
    HTH someone out as it has served me well.

  5. #105
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    I have used CLP for 150miliion trillion years as a lube so I guess I better catch up with technology. I do like CLP as a preservative as I have read some things that leads me to believe its pretty good in that part. My question is if a weapon has CLP on it and you squirt some SLIP on it in the importanareas before going to the range, training or chasing Zombies will it work? I know the oil and water repel each other deal, but sice they arent in a bottle like salad dressing would it still do the job?

  6. #106
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    Old School vs. New School

    Hi Pat! Been a while

    I posted this sometime back on the 1911 Forum, but it still has relevancy as to the subject.

    That is a very good observation, but with all due respect, based on the old school of Boundary Film Regimes which relied on oil viscosity alone to protect against the surface roughness and wear syndrome. Those "specialty" gun fluids or lubes can, and usually are, MORE effective that the ol' "goo" oil, even when they appear to be nearly dry. This is based on surface attaching compounds and halogenation techniques that are entirely corrosion controlled. In part, it is similar to giving the metal surfaces a "body armor" film that will withstand hertzian forces and loads without galling, wearing, or troughing the metal at all.

    Todays boundary film techniques employ more than just high viscosity fluids and viscosity improvers. They utilize extreme pressure agents, chemically reactive surface adherents, anti-scuff and anti-wear additives as well as pour point agents and stabilizers.

    Lubricating a piece of equipment that is constantly subjected to the forces of ignition combined with gas operation and recoil is a specialized task that can be done more or less efficiently depending on the fluid you choose and the abilities it has.
    In the short term, many of them seem to do the job, but it is the long term stresses and wear that will dictate the service life and wear characteristics of the weapon itself.

    Synthetic motor oils may seem fine to some, and in a comparative sense, are better than the older type lubricants, seeing their wide range of temperature operating conditions, all evolving from the alpha-olefin synthetic hydrocarbon, but without extensive additive packages to protect against extreme pressure and high wear, are not the best suited. (ergo the aspect of using a "gun oil" in your engine" and vice versa)

    There is a difference in the construction of the fluids and their intended purposes, which make up the fluids ability to perform under those designated conditions.

    Likewise, gun care is "rocket science" when it comes to the engineering end. That's our job, to make a product or products that take the science out of it by the time it gets to the shooter, allowing him/her to spend more time on shooting, and less time on the "science of the matter". But without those daring and venturesome souls out there, pusing the limits on their own guns and making note of all the pros and cons, improvements in anything would not happen. Can you imagine if there were no mavericks or wildcats in the reloading end of things?...we'd all be shooting the same old standard cartridges and loads that our grandfathers were, and ballistics as a science would have stopped dead in it's tracks.
    I'll go so far as to prove it if anyone cares to take me up on it.
    Just email me gcfennell@steelshieldtech.com with your name and address and I'll send you a free sample of my Weapon Shield CLP and let you all be the judge. I'll run the offer for a couple of weeks if it's ok with the admins here.
    I will guarantee it is a HUGE improvement over my old FP-10 of which I am no longer associated with. So, I'll put my product where my mouth is...again.

    Best regards,
    George
    George C. Fennell
    Technical Director
    Steel Shield Technologies, Inc.- Weapon Shield
    www.steelshieldtech.com
    www.weaponshield.com

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by gcfennell View Post
    I will guarantee it is a HUGE improvement over my old FP-10 of which I am no longer associated with. So, I'll put my product where my mouth is...again.
    Hey, George:

    I don't know if you remember me or not, but I'm a friend of Tony H. and Deb C. who used to be on your "team" of sponsored shooters. I was an engineer in a previous life, and your discussions of lubricants and FP-10 are what led me to switch to it from what I'd been using on my ARs. I'm no expert on tribology, but I know enough to recognize someone who is.

    Could you give us a brief explanation of why Weapon Shield is better than FP-10? Is it something completely new, or just the next step in what you were doing with FP-10?

  8. #108
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    Hey JOE!

    JOE, how are you. It's been a while my friend.
    Spoke with Tony Holmes and Deb Cheek (and Robert) about a week ago and both are doing well. Good to hear from you,

    Well, you COULD look at it as an upgrade to my old FP-10, but it's more like going from version 1.2 to 6.0.
    What is available now in my "kitchen" of synthetics and additive ingredients is a vast improvement in the industry since I brought out FP-10 in 1988 and now.
    Technology moves on in every field, including all the aspects and conjoined fields of lubrication engineering and tribology.

    Best regards,
    George
    George C. Fennell
    Technical Director
    Steel Shield Technologies, Inc.- Weapon Shield
    www.steelshieldtech.com
    www.weaponshield.com

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by gcfennell View Post
    JOE, how are you. It's been a while my friend.
    Spoke with Tony Holmes and Deb Cheek (and Robert) about a week ago and both are doing well. Good to hear from you,
    I am well, sir! I hope you are too. Glad to hear you are still in contact with Tony and the Cheeks!

    Quote Originally Posted by gcfennell View Post
    Well, you COULD look at it as an upgrade to my old FP-10, but it's more like going from version 1.2 to 6.0.
    What is available now in my "kitchen" of synthetics and additive ingredients is a vast improvement in the industry since I brought out FP-10 in 1988 and now.
    Technology moves on in every field, including all the aspects and conjoined fields of lubrication engineering and tribology.
    Okay ... I was going to ask you in e-mail, but why not here.

    I assume you recommend cleaning all the FP-10 (and other filth) from the gun before applying the Weapon Shield. My question is, can I use the Weapon Shield itself to clean it adequately, or should I degrease everything with some brake cleaner and start from "clean"?

  10. #110
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    Joe

    Weapon Shield is all you need my friend. Cradle to grave.
    It'll remove all gunk, carbon, fouling, and lead.

    Best regards Joe,
    George
    George C. Fennell
    Technical Director
    Steel Shield Technologies, Inc.- Weapon Shield
    www.steelshieldtech.com
    www.weaponshield.com

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