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Thread: Lubrication Issues

  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pat_Rogers View Post
    Roger Dport, understood. However, my time is kinda' tight, and am looking for ways to make things easier, not more difficult. I am satisfied with both the Slip 200 and Machine Gunners lube, which already come in appropriate sized containers. If i believed that something else was denonstrably better, i might consider spending so much more time- but not right now.
    Copy all. I gave up reloading for the same reason.

    However, if someone needed lube and had synthetic in the garage, then this is a viable alternative. Especially, if you have a wife like mine who does all sorts of craftsy crap. She has small little squeeze bottles perfect for such things in the spare room. Or you can just use the old lube bottle. It took me less time to fill up the squeeze bottle than to make this post.

    And it sure beats taking your wife's Vagasil!

    ETA: We had a hard time getting CLP from our Maintenance Support Team for whatever reason. It was HAZMAT, of course, and for some reason they had a problem getting it to the MST det in Bahrain. So we did a little bartering with the Brits to get CLP. We gave their "gunner's mates" some USGI mags, and we got a gallon of CLP. Now that was a PITA to put in little bottles for use.

    Tells you something about the Brit mags too, I think. They wanted Al mags instead of their steel ones. They said ours were more reliable. Hmmm.
    They had no right to win. Yet they did, and in doing so they changed the course of a war...even against the greatest of odds, there is something in the human spirit - a magic blend of skill, faith and valor - that can lift men from certain defeat to incredible victory.

  2. #92
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    Signal,
    Just so we are tracking, we are assigned individual weapons, you are responsible for them, and they conduct random inspections of them.

    Dport, others....

    Didn't the militarty just conduct another study, to find acceptable substitutes for lube, and cleaner. IO believe they said motor oil was good for lube, forget which weight, and tranny fluid to clean.

    FWIW, at another facility we ised transmission fluid for lube, on the Glocks, AR's and 870 when we had them. Ken Elmore said I could use MobilOne if I wanted to. But, like Pat and others have said I have enough of the other stuff for now.

    Bob

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by R Moran View Post
    Signal,


    Dport, others....

    Didn't the militarty just conduct another study, to find acceptable substitutes for lube, and cleaner. IO believe they said motor oil was good for lube, forget which weight, and tranny fluid to clean.
    I hadn't heard that, but it does remind me. If someone is using Mobile 1, they need to understand it doesn't C or P. If you live in MS, the only place where I had preservation issues short of being haze grey and underway, you should probably use something else.
    They had no right to win. Yet they did, and in doing so they changed the course of a war...even against the greatest of odds, there is something in the human spirit - a magic blend of skill, faith and valor - that can lift men from certain defeat to incredible victory.

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhino View Post
    You're welcome!

    As far as "CLP" goes ... not all of them are the same. The latest military specs for CLP (which you can get from Royco) do not have any of the teflon or other stuff that separates from the carrier(s) like you get with Breakfree CLP and some others when you let them sit for a long time. It's (mil-spec CLP) also really thin and you probably need to keep adding it a lot more frequently.

    Other products that are also CLPs work better as lubes. FP-10 is one and there are a lot of others. Some work better/longer than others. Obviously you can't go wrong with the Slip2000, as the testimony here illustrates.

    I used to use a non-CLP-type liquid lube on my ARs (TW25B oil and TetraLube, which are very similar products). The guns functioned just as well with that stuff, but for some reason I started using FP-10 and it works too. I've done three day carbine classes with both kinds of lubes without cleaning or adding lube (starting dripping wet) without problems just to see if I could. That was, of course, contrary to the instructors' recommendations, so since I proved it to myself, I now follow the "rules." I add lube at least at the end of every day, and more if it's a high volume day or if the gun gets really hot from a lot of rapid fire.
    Hey Rhino where have you been finding the Royco CLP? I have been searching for awhile as I ran out and had to buy Breakfree CLP.

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shihan View Post
    Hey Rhino where have you been finding the Royco CLP? I have been searching for awhile as I ran out and had to buy Breakfree CLP.

    Good question ... the only Royco CLP I have was repackaged from a big group multi-gallon purchase that some guys on the AR15-L e-mail list (on Yahoo!) did years ago. One of them teased me about using something other than CLP on my guns (TW25B at the time, of course!), so he sent me a pint bottle of the Royco (I forget the part number).

    I know they bought it directly from Royco. I'll e-mail him and ask if it's still available.

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmart View Post
    Just out of curiosity, what is the maintenance protocol for a patrol officer? Does their carbine sit in the trunk for weeks in between scheduled maint/re-lubing? Is it up to the individual officer to maintain commonly shared weapons (shotguns, carbines) that never really leave the vehicle?

    I can easily understand how it would be the individual officer's responsibility to maintain their sidearm, but how does all the other shared "junk in the trunk" get maintained? Any experience about how long things can go before lubes evaporate and effectivenss is lost?
    jmart, that can depend on the department you're in. I don't know about others, but I'll tell you about mine, which is a rural sheriff's office of about 45 paid deputies and 15 volunteer auxiliary deputies, including me. In NC, auxiliary/reserve officers have the same arrest powers, the same basic and in-service training, and the same state certification requirement as full-timers; the only difference is how much you work and if you get paid. Hopefully I'll be going into a paid position later this year but I'm mighty glad to be in LE any way I can do it. We serve a county of 32,000 population spread out over 865 square miles and 900-odd miles of road, depending on how many private drives you count. Most of the time it's pretty calm but stuff DOES happen, and you never know when or to whom it will happen, so we try to be prepared.

    For the full-timers, the department issues each one an M4gery, which stays in the deputy's take-home car. So, each deputy can clean/lube/maintain, or not, their carbine as much or little as they want. Everybody's carbine is guaranteed one thorough cleaning per year at annual qualification. We have a classroom session on the law of lethal force, shoot day and night qual, and then clean weapons before we're allowed to go home. At the last qual, I don't recall any emphasis on proper lube. We have another qual in two months and if nobody says anything official, I might mention to those around me that plenty of lube in the gas ports would be a good idea, and will probably get responses to the effect that it will drip out from the ceiling rack. How well our carbines work in the real world no one knows, since we have not had an OIS with them. How much everybody else cleans/maintains/lubes theirs, I don't know and am afraid to ask.

    For the auxiliaries, if we want rifles, we have to buy and keep them ourselves. This is fine with me, because I get to buy what's good and maintain it regularly. I keep my M&P-15 in my POV, in a case with a side pocket big enough to serve as a general "war bag" with more ammo, statute book, gloves, traffic vest, and other handy items. When I go on duty, I just turn on the Short Dot and stow my rifle case and plate carrier (which actually has plates in it, Level IV) in the trunk of the senior deputy I'm riding with. My rifle is a bit scratched-up from the BFG sling's pull tab but it sure is lubed enough to where you can smell the CLP with the case zipped up. Yes, I know I need to get Slip 2000.

    Everybody with a carbine is issued 50 rounds of Winchester White Box 55FMJ, part number USA223R1, which I call "M193 with brain damage" because Winchester's spec sheet lists it as 200fps slower than Q3131. At least both loads use the same bullet so I hope the 55FMJ fragmentation effect will work as advertised at any range we're likely to need it. Anyway, the important part is hitting a vital area and that's MY responsibility, so I don't get wrapped around the axle over what exact rocks they give me to throw.

    The only required live fire is 100 rounds at qual, which is shooting at ye olde B-27 at ranges from 100 to 25 yards. You want practice ammo? Get a day job and buy some. Business has been up and down at my day job, limiting my live-fire to maybe 50 rounds/month this year, but dryfire and transition drills are free, and business is picking up. I had three stoppages at the only carbine class I've been able to take so far, but one was definitely my fault--I wasn't aware until then that if you slam mags too hard during an open-bolt reload, you can bounce the top rounds out. Now that I know about proper lube, I haven't had any stoppages in backyard practice, but that's not a very good test. I need another class, and soon.
    When life gives you lemons, insert copper and zinc wires in them and repeatedly shock your tongue.

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by HolyRoller View Post
    jmart, that can depend on the department you're in. I don't know about others, but I'll tell you about mine, which is a rural sheriff's office of about 45 paid deputies and 15 volunteer auxiliary deputies, including me. In NC, auxiliary/reserve officers have the same arrest powers, the same basic and in-service training, and the same state certification requirement as full-timers; the only difference is how much you work and if you get paid. Hopefully I'll be going into a paid position later this year but I'm mighty glad to be in LE any way I can do it. We serve a county of 32,000 population spread out over 865 square miles and 900-odd miles of road, depending on how many private drives you count. Most of the time it's pretty calm but stuff DOES happen, and you never know when or to whom it will happen, so we try to be prepared.

    For the full-timers, the department issues each one an M4gery, which stays in the deputy's take-home car. So, each deputy can clean/lube/maintain, or not, their carbine as much or little as they want. Everybody's carbine is guaranteed one thorough cleaning per year at annual qualification. We have a classroom session on the law of lethal force, shoot day and night qual, and then clean weapons before we're allowed to go home. At the last qual, I don't recall any emphasis on proper lube. We have another qual in two months and if nobody says anything official, I might mention to those around me that plenty of lube in the gas ports would be a good idea, and will probably get responses to the effect that it will drip out from the ceiling rack. How well our carbines work in the real world no one knows, since we have not had an OIS with them. How much everybody else cleans/maintains/lubes theirs, I don't know and am afraid to ask.

    For the auxiliaries, if we want rifles, we have to buy and keep them ourselves. This is fine with me, because I get to buy what's good and maintain it regularly. I keep my M&P-15 in my POV, in a case with a side pocket big enough to serve as a general "war bag" with more ammo, statute book, gloves, traffic vest, and other handy items. When I go on duty, I just turn on the Short Dot and stow my rifle case and plate carrier (which actually has plates in it, Level IV) in the trunk of the senior deputy I'm riding with. My rifle is a bit scratched-up from the BFG sling's pull tab but it sure is lubed enough to where you can smell the CLP with the case zipped up. Yes, I know I need to get Slip 2000.

    Everybody with a carbine is issued 50 rounds of Winchester White Box 55FMJ, part number USA223R1, which I call "M193 with brain damage" because Winchester's spec sheet lists it as 200fps slower than Q3131. At least both loads use the same bullet so I hope the 55FMJ fragmentation effect will work as advertised at any range we're likely to need it. Anyway, the important part is hitting a vital area and that's MY responsibility, so I don't get wrapped around the axle over what exact rocks they give me to throw.

    The only required live fire is 100 rounds at qual, which is shooting at ye olde B-27 at ranges from 100 to 25 yards. You want practice ammo? Get a day job and buy some. Business has been up and down at my day job, limiting my live-fire to maybe 50 rounds/month this year, but dryfire and transition drills are free, and business is picking up. I had three stoppages at the only carbine class I've been able to take so far, but one was definitely my fault--I wasn't aware until then that if you slam mags too hard during an open-bolt reload, you can bounce the top rounds out. Now that I know about proper lube, I haven't had any stoppages in backyard practice, but that's not a very good test. I need another class, and soon.
    Thanks for the detailed response. I asked this simply out of curiosity and it's apparent it depends on your jurisdiction and your dept policies regarding frequency of PM maint.

    In your case, sounds as if it's entirely up to each officer to make sure it's lubed. I guess it's guaranteed one good cleaning/lubing annually, whether it needs it or not.

    After reading this thread and taking it all in, do you think full timers in your dept let the carbines sit for prolonged periods in between PM lubes? Anyone try to take that weapon and go through annual quals without prepping it in any way? I'm always curious how long a cleaned weapon that's lubed with CLP, how long that lube will remian effective if the weapon sits in the rack. 2 weeks? 1 month? At some point does the lube evaporate, gum up or settle out and lose its effectiveness? I would assume that grunts over in the sandbox have no such problem since they maintain their weapons daily, but I'm really curious what civilian's LE policies are and whether or not they been demonstrated to prove effective when it comes time to pull the trigger. God knows I'd be less than confident if at the time I NEEDED my carbine, it was then I realized the last time this carbine was lubed may have been 5 months ago.

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shihan View Post
    Hey Rhino where have you been finding the Royco CLP? I have been searching for awhile as I ran out and had to buy Breakfree CLP.

    Okay . . . here is the scoop:

    According to my buddy, Royco was acquired by Anderol.

    There is a button on the Anderol web site for ordering Royco products online, but it doesn't seem to function right now. You may wish to just e-mail Anderol and inquire about vendors. The CLP is designated Royco 634.

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmart View Post
    Anyone try to take that weapon and go through annual quals without prepping it in any way? I'm always curious how long a cleaned weapon that's lubed with CLP, how long that lube will remian effective if the weapon sits in the rack. 2 weeks? 1 month? At some point does the lube evaporate, gum up or settle out and lose its effectiveness? I would assume that grunts over in the sandbox have no such problem since they maintain their weapons daily, but I'm really curious what civilian's LE policies are and whether or not they been demonstrated to prove effective when it comes time to pull the trigger.
    I'm not Holyroller, but I have an answer to your querstion(s).

    Some of our range events are unannounced. Report to the range, shoot the COFs, return to duty. Most range activities and COFs are 50-150rds. Even the neglected guns with minimal or residual lube will go that far. Most will go some distance more, depending on the lube and how much is left. Basic CLP goes the least distance, the gucci stuff (Slip, TW25, Tetra, others) longer.

    I also do an annual test when the temps drop to demonstrate the gun/ammo combo will run when it's cold. (0 to -10 degrees or so)

    HTH
    2012 National Zumba Endurance Champion
    الدهون القاع الفتيات لك جعل العالم هزاز جولة الذهاب

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhino View Post
    Okay . . . here is the scoop:

    According to my buddy, Royco was acquired by Anderol.

    There is a button on the Anderol web site for ordering Royco products online, but it doesn't seem to function right now. You may wish to just e-mail Anderol and inquire about vendors. The CLP is designated Royco 634.
    Thanks

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