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Thread: SR-15 crowning?

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveL View Post
    Someone on this site (I believe it was KevinB, but I don't remember for sure) once told via PM that the SR15 has what's called a 'combat crown' rather than a target crown.
    That makes sense based on the stated purpose of the SR15. KAC has never marketed the E3 as more than a combat accurate rifle even though some of them can be very good shooters.
    Last edited by mtdawg169; 10-14-10 at 20:16.

  2. #22
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    Shit I thought someones rifle was having a baby

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtdawg169 View Post
    IMO, crowning indicates that the rifling has been dressed in some way. Cutting the barrel isn't the same as crowning as far as I'm concerned.
    If you check, not only has the barrel been cut, but the cut has been squared and the edges deburred. Your opinion won't change the fact it's a crown

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by MistWolf View Post
    If you check, not only has the barrel been cut, but the cut has been squared and the edges deburred. Your opinion won't change the fact it's a crown
    I have checked. Do you have some firsthand knowledge of how KAC produces their barrels or any firsthand experience with the E3 to support your opinion? As I have stated several times already, my barrel shows NO signs of finishing after being cut to length & there are evident tool marks on the end of the muzzle. There is no evidence of any finishing, squaring or deburring. Let me clear, this is not a complaint, just a statement of fact about my rifle. Even with a flat crown, lightly chamfering the inside edge on a lathe or deburring the lands & grooves is usually considered part of the process of crowning a barrel.
    Last edited by mtdawg169; 10-15-10 at 08:39.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by MistWolf View Post
    If you check, not only has the barrel been cut, but the cut has been squared and the edges deburred. Your opinion won't change the fact it's a crown
    So how does what you described equal whats in the pic....

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtdawg169 View Post
    I have checked. Do you have some firsthand knowledge of how KAC produces their barrels or any firsthand experience with the E3 to support your opinion? As I have stated several times already, my barrel shows NO signs of finishing after being cut to length & there are evident tool marks on the end of the muzzle. There is no evidence of any finishing, squaring or deburring. Let me clear, this is not a complaint, just a statement of fact about my rifle. Even with a flat crown, lightly chamfering the inside edge on a lathe or deburring the lands & grooves is usually considered part of the process of crowning a barrel.
    Truth be told, no. I was going by your description-
    Quote Originally Posted by mtdawg169 View Post
    Trust me, mine looks like it was just cut clean off. It has machine marks on the face of the muzzle and is cut completely perpendicular to the bore. It will still shoot under 1.25 moa though.
    Certain things must be done for a firearm to function and shoot well and applying a proper crown is one of them. Crowns vary in style and quality. If you did not have a proper crown, your rifle wouldn't shoot under 1.25 moa as you claim. Crowns can have rough machining marks, although accuracy buffs will have them smoothed out.

    If there were no squaring, the cut would not be "completely perpendicular to the bore". Deburring can be light enough to just remove burrs left behind by the machining process without leaving a chamfer visible to the naked eye.

    Your KAC does have a crown and it works. It may or may not meet current KAC specifications. It may not be the ideal type, yet it is still a crown. In your case, I would consider having it further cleaned up and given a 11 degree chamfer for peace of mind. It's not necessary to have the work done, however.

    Quote Originally Posted by TRIDENT82 View Post
    So how does what you described equal whats in the pic....
    In the picture above, the crown has been faced 90 degrees and has a deep chamfer at the bore. The picture differs from the description given by mtdawg169 in that he states his barrel has no chamfer.
    Quote Originally Posted by MistWolf View Post
    That is your crown. Crowning comes in many different styles. This one is simply a flat crown.
    Quote Originally Posted by MistWolf View Post
    If you check, not only has the barrel been cut, but the cut has been squared and the edges deburred. Your opinion won't change the fact it's a crown
    The laws of physics do not change because your rifle is an AR. Yes, I grew up with what this group so quaintly calls "Fudd Guns". I have a secret to tell you- the AR is just another Fudd Gun. It does the same thing and works basically the same way as every other repeating firearm out there- Feed round from magazine, fire, extract, eject, feed round from magazine. There is no special AR magic that makes them work. A crown works the same on an AR as it does on all other Fudd Guns with a small footnote for flash suppressor installation

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by MistWolf View Post
    Truth be told, no. I was going by your description-
    If you have no firsthand experience with the SR15 E3, then you have no idea how they come from the factory. The rest of your statements are nothing more than speculation since you have never even laid eyes on what is being discussed. My description was pretty clear.

    If you did not have a proper crown, your rifle wouldn't shoot under 1.25 moa as you claim. Crowns can have rough machining marks, although accuracy buffs will have them smoothed out.
    Not a claim, proof has been shown here on this site previously. It won't do that well with all ammo, but it will with at least one load in particular. Other commercial loads generally run about 2 moa as has been shown elsewhere on this site by photographic evidence.

    Your KAC does have a crown and it works. It may or may not meet current KAC specifications. It may not be the ideal type, yet it is still a crown.
    It is within KAC's spec as they have stated before the SR15's do not receive a target-style crown at the factory. It has been referred to before as a "combat" crown, which may mean that it was cut & deburred, but that has not been confirmed. However, based on the circular tool marks on the muzzle, I don't think there were any additional steps taken. There is no additional attention paid to the inside edge of the bore to chamfer it, which is generally what is expected as a minimum when other people refer to a crown.

    In your case, I would consider having it further cleaned up and given a 11 degree chamfer for peace of mind. It's not necessary to have the work done, however.
    I'm pretty sure I have stated several times that I did not think it was necessary.

    The laws of physics do not change because your rifle is an AR. Yes, I grew up with what this group so quaintly calls "Fudd Guns". I have a secret to tell you- the AR is just another Fudd Gun. It does the same thing and works basically the same way as every other repeating firearm out there- Feed round from magazine, fire, extract, eject, feed round from magazine. There is no special AR magic that makes them work. A crown works the same on an AR as it does on all other Fudd Guns with a small footnote for flash suppressor installation
    No kidding. Every "fudd" gun I own, from .22 LR to 30-06 has at least a chamfer at the muzzle, unlike my SR15. My Noveske N4 on the other hand, does. By your standard, any barrel that has been cut to length has essentially been crowned, it may just happen to be a crappy crown. Crowning is a separate step in the barrel finishing process to dress the end of the bore, no matter how obtusely you want to see it.

  8. #28
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    mtdawg169, are you deliberately being obstinate? A person does not need to see the crown of your rifle to understand what it looks like from your description.

    Quote Originally Posted by mtdawg169 View Post
    By your standard, any barrel that has been cut to length has essentially been crowned, it may just happen to be a crappy crown. Crowning is a separate step in the barrel finishing process to dress the end of the bore, no matter how obtusely you want to see it.
    That's what I said. "Crown" as a noun describes the area of the muzzle where the bullet exits. "Crown" as a verb describes the act of squaring off the muzzle.

    I didn't use the word "claim" to bring to question the size of your groups or your credibility. Merely to point out if you had a bad crown, you'd have patterns, not groups especially not 1.25 moa groups

  9. #29
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    Lightbulb

    Quote Originally Posted by MistWolf View Post
    mtdawg169, are you deliberately being obstinate? A person does not need to see the crown of your rifle to understand what it looks like from your description.

    That's what I said. "Crown" as a noun describes the area of the muzzle where the bullet exits. "Crown" as a verb describes the act of squaring off the muzzle.

    I didn't use the word "claim" to bring to question the size of your groups or your credibility. Merely to point out if you had a bad crown, you'd have patterns, not groups especially not 1.25 moa groups
    Not trying to be obstinate, simply responding to your posts based on my own firsthand experience. However, I'm not sure I understand what point you've been trying to make. In order to not derail this thread any further, we can take this discussion to IM if you want to discuss further.

  10. #30
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    "crown" to me is a verb. you crown a muzzle... a muzzle is not a crown.
    Last edited by bkb0000; 10-15-10 at 23:16.

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