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Thread: Sub-$200 FF Mid-Length Rail System

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by aaron_c View Post
    Which are you saying you'd stay away from, the Magpul MOE handguard or the Troy drop-in? Both seem to be quality units from everything I've read thus far, and both are American companies (I think, anyway?). Thanks for the input on the experience you had!
    I had a Troy DI handguard that was a great unit. You can pick them up pretty cheap on the EE sometimes, too. Honestly, though, I'd just run stock handguards for now until you have the money for a FF rail from DD or Larue.

    With guns, as a general rule, you get what you pay for. If you see a FF rail that cost $150 when everything else cost twice that much, there is a reason.

    You can buy a $150 accessory now, and a $300 one down the road, spending a total of $450; or you can just wait a little longer and buy the $300 accessory.

    There is no reason to put a POS $100 chinese optic on a fighting rifle, it's plain stupid. Used Eotech 512's can be had for about $300-$350 in excellent condition. If you're looking for a good iron sight to run in the mean time, Troy is great (for flip ups). Larue, DD and Troy all make excellent fixed variations as well.

    I'm broke too, but I managed to put together a great quality rifle in a timely manner. Youre just gonna have to sacrifice some things in the mean time.


    You're going to find out (if you haven't already) that "budget" stuff isn't well received around here.

  2. #42
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    As far as optics go, save your money and scour the FS section here and elsewhere for a used Aimpoint CompM2. You can leave it on all the time and have it ready to go, and it will be a real durable optic with no compromises. Get the optic down the road. Do not take a shortcut with this rifle.

    Trust us on this...
    I'm no expert, but I took my CCW course at a Holiday Inn Express

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by aaron_c View Post
    Which are you saying you'd stay away from, the Magpul MOE handguard or the Troy drop-in? Both seem to be quality units from everything I've read thus far, and both are American companies (I think, anyway?). Thanks for the input on the experience you had!
    It looks like the Troy locks under or to the hand guard cap (if that is the correct name) by the front sight block then it will conduct a lot of heat if it is made out of metal.

    The cheap rail I got clamped down to the outside of the cap. The barrel and front sight block get pretty damn warm (nice way of saying burn the crap out of you). I had to stop shooting because I couldn't reasonably hold the rifle and I thought the rail covers were going to melt with the cheap set I got.

    Never a heat issue with the stock guards. I don't see any problems with the Magpul MOE ones. I have been thinking about getting a set of those to try.

    I like the idea of the rails, but the cheap ones in my experience (1 range trip and I took them off) just added weight, made the grip rather large with rail covers in place and almost burnt the crap out of me.

  4. #44
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    Thanks for the info Pardoner! The Troy ones I am somewhat considering install the same way as the Magpuls and the stocks, just a drop-in replacement. But the price difference, something like $110, I just don't think they're worth it over the Magpul units, which I've yet to hear a bad word about (other than one guy somewhere saying his handguard and CTR stock suddenly got so loose they were falling off or something, which I doubt).

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by aaron_c View Post
    Thanks for the info Pardoner! The Troy ones I am somewhat considering install the same way as the Magpuls and the stocks, just a drop-in replacement. But the price difference, something like $110, I just don't think they're worth it over the Magpul units, which I've yet to hear a bad word about (other than one guy somewhere saying his handguard and CTR stock suddenly got so loose they were falling off or something, which I doubt).
    I could see the hardguard needing loctite if it got loose. The one I had on worked itself loose, but I took it off. I can't say anything bad about it not being solid because I feel it was my duty to loctite anything with screws on a rifle.

    My thought is that the Troy will indeed get really hot if it mounts the way you describe. It may bot matter if you are always using a VFG or always wear gloves.

    I just didn't like how hot mine got after a few mags. It was hot on the range here in Florida, but I bought my gun to shoot. Not sit around cooling off. And when I take it to shoot, I really shoot it!

    If I can't trust it on the range then how can I trust it when I really need it.

  6. #46
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    The charging handle slides in and out easily. There a notch it slides into. You need to seek some instruction from some one who knows what they're doing.

    Daniel Defense and LaRue make excellent rear sights. I have one of each. The DD is lighter and less expensive.
    "Real men have always needed to know what time it is so they are at the airfield on time, pumping rounds into savages at the right time, etc. Being able to see such in the dark while light weights were comfy in bed without using a light required luminous material." -Originally Posted by ramairthree

  7. #47
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    The Troy DI rail is good to go. Mine was so Damn tight the 4 screws were really not even necessary. They are heavy.
    "Real men have always needed to know what time it is so they are at the airfield on time, pumping rounds into savages at the right time, etc. Being able to see such in the dark while light weights were comfy in bed without using a light required luminous material." -Originally Posted by ramairthree

  8. #48
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    Welcome to the forum, Aaron. I'm going to critique your research a little bit, and I hope you understand that I'm doing it to maybe help you be a bit more constructively cynical and enlighten anyone else who is reading this as to where you might've gone astray

    Quote Originally Posted by aaron_c View Post
    Maybe you missed where I said I was going to get the $35 Magpul handguard instead. And yeah quad rails look cool, but I NEED something to mount a flashlight and VFG on in case of the unfortunate event of something going bump in the night in my home. You are the very first person I've heard say Del Ton's stuff is anything less than excellent. I'm not a soldier, LEO, or competitive shooter- hopefully this gun will just be for me to enjoy at the range etc. so I guess I'm not sure how I look like a poser for potentially not building my rifle the same as you would.
    Understand that the AR world is divided pretty starkly into three groups: Junk, mid-level stuff and terrific stuff. Just FYI, Del-Ton is "Junk", along with Model 1 Sales and M&A Parts. Mid-level stuff consists of companies such as Bushmaster, Rock River Arms, DPMS, Armalite and Stag Arms. Terrific stuff is Colt, BCM, Daniel Defense, Noveske, etc. S&W has hovered somewhere between Mid-level stuff and Terrific.

    As far as your research, I am going to embed my picking apart in the below:

    And most of my research has been done on ar15.com,ar15.com has some good stuff in it, but the rest of it is a bunch of non-shooters who build toys, not rifles. Waaay too much bling and not enough "bang" on that website here, M4C is good for solid infoar15armory.com,I am unimpressed as to what they consider "good" over there. and through countless random websites where I've read up on product reviewsGenerally product reviews are paid for by the guys selling the product and are not to be trusted. Most product reviews do not involve enought shooting to expose product weaknesses and often products for such reviews are specially prepared. etc. I've also talked to friends (some LEO's, some soldiers, some neither)LEOs and soldiers, in general, know little about ARs. Lots of military and police trainers spread lies, falsehoods and passed down bullshit about the AR platform. I have 28 years in the Army and automatically discount what soldiers and police say about the AR unless they prove they know enough to me that own AR's about what stuff is good and bad, and talked several times with my gunsmith on the topic.
    I only trust AR gunsmiths. Regular gunsmiths really don't know much about ARs.

    I hope my input helps.

    If I were you, I'd get a real basic mid-length BCM carbine with a back up iron sight and shoot the crap out of it. Don't put a red dot sight on it, until you can afford an Aimpoint or something of similar quality. It'll do everything you want of it, and it'll make you a much better shooter.
    Last edited by 120mm; 10-21-10 at 05:17.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by 120mm View Post
    Welcome to the forum, Aaron. I'm going to critique your research a little bit, and I hope you understand that I'm doing it to maybe help you be a bit more constructively cynical and enlighten anyone else who is reading this as to where you might've gone astray



    Understand that the AR world is divided pretty starkly into three groups: Junk, mid-level stuff and terrific stuff. Just FYI, Del-Ton is "Junk", along with Model 1 Sales and M&A Parts. Mid-level stuff consists of companies such as Bushmaster, Rock River Arms, DPMS, Armalite and Stag Arms. Terrific stuff is Colt, BCM, Daniel Defense, Noveske, etc. S&W has hovered somewhere between Mid-level stuff and Terrific.

    As far as your research, I am going to embed my picking apart in the below:



    I only trust AR gunsmiths. Regular gunsmiths really don't know much about ARs.

    I hope my input helps.

    If I were you, I'd get a real basic mid-length BCM carbine with a back up iron sight and shoot the crap out of it. Don't put a red dot sight on it, until you can afford an Aimpoint or something of similar quality. It'll do everything you want of it, and it'll make you a much better shooter.
    Thanks for all the info, 120mm. It's interesting, some 'other boards' have said that Del-Ton stuff is great and DPMS isn't so great. Different strokes, I suppose. Here's the plan, currently:

    Spikes Tactical complete lower ($250). This is a solid company, right? Quality stuff? The BCM mid-length lightweight upper (minus handguard, BCG, and charging handle). I'll be buying the things such as handguard, BCG, charging handle, rear BUIS (MBUS or maybe even a fixed unit from DD), PMags...I think that's all I need. Does this sound like a solid rifle?

    And yeah this gunsmith isn't specific to 'just' AR's but it's his specialty, he runs the section of the firearms store that deals with semi-auto rifles (and they have about 5 times as many AR's as anything else). They also seem to refuse to sell anything outside of companies like Troy and Daniel Defense for accessories, there are a few others that I can't recall.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by aaron_c View Post
    Thanks for all the info, 120mm. It's interesting, some 'other boards' have said that Del-Ton stuff is great and DPMS isn't so great. Different strokes, I suppose. Here's the plan, currently:
    That's a very easy to prove or disprove: What does Del-Ton make their bolts and barrels out of? And do the HP/MPI their bolts and barrels? Last time I checked, Del-Ton made their barrels out of 4140 steel, which is not what the TDP calls for. The bolts are made of inferior steel as well. DPMS does the exact same thing. Kind of takes the subjectivity out of it, and it isn't just a Ford/Chevy comparison that way.

    Spikes Tactical complete lower ($250). This is a solid company, right? Quality stuff? The BCM mid-length lightweight upper (minus handguard, BCG, and charging handle). I'll be buying the things such as handguard, BCG, charging handle, rear BUIS (MBUS or maybe even a fixed unit from DD), PMags...I think that's all I need. Does this sound like a solid rifle?
    Yep, and it'll cost you about what a lesser quality rifle in a gunshop would run. Good for you for seeking an education prior to plunking down your hard earned cash, btw.

    And yeah this gunsmith isn't specific to 'just' AR's but it's his specialty, he runs the section of the firearms store that deals with semi-auto rifles (and they have about 5 times as many AR's as anything else). They also seem to refuse to sell anything outside of companies like Troy and Daniel Defense for accessories, there are a few others that I can't recall.
    Well, the proof is in the putting. I'm pretty sure your Spike's/BCM hybrid will run like the proverbial sexually assaulted large primate. Have fun!

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