Doing research on buying a REAL 1911

[Arik]

I have a full size Citadel (RI) that I paid $350 last summer when I wanted to go beyond renting but wasn't sure if I'd like it once bought and didnt wanted to pay the big bucks the other 1911s were going for to find out. Well the Citadel has been flawless and fairly accurate with about 2k rounds. And now I think I'm ready to move one to a more "real" more "solid" 1911. And from everything I've been reading, between price and quality, SA seems to be the best all around 1911.

My question is this. Are all 1911 parts the same? Meaning there is no major difference between them? Maybe some fitting but it's not all together different parts .....right? Also it doesn't seem like anyone makes the specific look I like. Is there a modern 1911 that more or less resembles the original? No front serrations, no bever tail safety, and a spur hammer. Just a smooth looking 1911 with modern sights and ambi safety!

[amd5007]

Just my two cents, but I own both a Kimber TLE II and Springfield GI model that I've upgraded to my own specs. Both are excellent pistols and both are made to superb standards.

All 1911s share a high degree of parts commonality. I've built a 1911 where everything fit into place without any fitting, and I've built another where every part needed fitting. The only real difference is whether the pistol has a firing pin safety (what Colt calls the series 80) or no firing pin safety (a Colt series 70). Firing pin safeties can either be actuated by pulling the trigger (series 80) or by depressing the grip safety (the mechanism Kimber uses). Springfield does not use any firing pin safeties, but they use titanium firing pins and incorporate a lockout mechanism into the mainspring housing, known as the ILS.

If you're looking for a good basic pistol that will allow you to play around with parts and experiment on what works for you, the Springfield Mil-Spec or a Colt series 70 are you're best bet. If you're looking for an all around combat pistol then the Springfield Loaded models are the best bang for your buck and come standard with night sights, beavertail grip safety, and an ambi-safety.

I would choose a pistol based on two factors: availability and price. Whether Colt, Springfield, or Kimber you wouldn't be disappointed.

[glocktogo]

I have a full size Citadel (RI) that I paid $350 last summer when I wanted to go beyond renting but wasn't sure if I'd like it once bought and didnt wanted to pay the big bucks the other 1911s were going for to find out. Well the Citadel has been flawless and fairly accurate with about 2k rounds. And now I think I'm ready to move one to a more "real" more "solid" 1911. And from everything I've been reading, between price and quality, SA seems to be the best all around 1911.

My question is this. Are all 1911 parts the same? Meaning there is no major difference between them? Maybe some fitting but it's not all together different parts .....right? Also it doesn't seem like anyone makes the specific look I like. Is there a modern 1911 that more or less resembles the original? No front serrations, no bever tail safety, and a spur hammer. Just a smooth looking 1911 with modern sights and ambi safety!

While some parts commonality might exist, all 1911 parts are certainly not equal. Cheap parts will make for a marginal gun that may or may not function, and may fail at an very inopportune time.

The Springfield GI and Remington R1 are close to what you're looking for. You'd have to add an ambi safety and possibly whatever sights you want.

Is this going to be a range toy? The reason I ask is that the modernized 1911's such as the Colt XSE or Rail Gun have features that improve ergonomics and function over the original. These features are worthwhile for a serious use gun and should trump aesthetics. I think the newer iterations actually look better.

Besides, if I want the old school look, I wouldn't be satisfied unless it was an all original Colt marked "US Property".

[amd5007]

While some parts commonality might exist, all 1911 parts are certainly not equal.

Yeah, I agree. I forgot to mention that. If one's on the hunt for parts to upgrade or customize a pistol you can trust pretty much any parts sold by Wilson, Ed Brown, Caspian, EGW, or Cylinder & Slide.

[Arik]

No this would be for carry and serious use. I can just keep the Citadel as a range toy.

So Remingtons are gtg? I haven't researched them yet in fact I completely forgot they made 1911s.

Sorry for my ignorance, What new features that improve function? I mean besides the rails.

Another question I forgot to ask yesterday...I also have the old, no longer imported, Norinco 1911A1. Got it really cheap the other week. Couldn't pass it up. Guy was pissed that he didnt realize it was Chinese and wanted nothing to do with it. From all Ive read they used high quality steel for the slides and frames and internals were machined parts and not MIM although not the highest of quality in small parts machining. They are supposed to be exact copies of Colts 1911A1. Would this be a good candidate to swap out the internals for some high quality ones and have a 1911 for more then just a range toy?

I know this is opening up a can of worms but would anyone recomand a Sig or S&W for a first 1911 (not as a range toy) even with the external ejector?

[Jim D]

I would look at a basic Colt or a Springfield MilSpec, then have the upgrades performed by a reputable gunsmith.

[CAVDOC]

many people also don't realize that Springfield Armories guns aren't made in the U.S. either. oddly enough some of the best 1911's out there today are foreign made- SA, the various phillipino brands like your citadel, and back in the day when Norinco's were still improted into the U.S. was considered one of the better quality 1911's. We are our own worst enemy with 1911's- they are so popular everyone makes one- all to slightly different specifications, resulting in the reality all parts are a little different and nearly all require some fitting.
To me and this is purely a personal bias, a "real" 1911 means a Colt. I am in the same camp as Col. Jeff Cooper- all a 1911 needs is a manageable trigger and visible sights -you can keep you round hammers beavertails long triggers with holes in them and fancy serrations.

[dwheelock]

Some people are running the Sig's just fine, but i've read a lot of complaints as well. The Norinco is great, but if you are looking for a serious carry/protection gun i dont think you should be looking to cut corners....it's your life. If that is the dollar range you are in go out and buy a Springfield already. Some people here will recommended Kimber, i had two of them, both full of problems and their customer service sucks. I honestly couldnt sell them fast enough. My SA Mil-spec hasnt ever had a hiccup, it's a great gun. To protect my life, it's Wilson Combat. Anyway you go there is a ton of 1911 info here.

[amd5007]

No this would be for carry and serious use. I can just keep the Citadel as a range toy.

So Remingtons are gtg? I haven't researched them yet in fact I completely forgot they made 1911s.

Sorry for my ignorance, What new features that improve function? I mean besides the rails.

Another question I forgot to ask yesterday...I also have the old, no longer imported, Norinco 1911A1. Got it really cheap the other week. Couldn't pass it up. Guy was pissed that he didnt realize it was Chinese and wanted nothing to do with it. From all Ive read they used high quality steel for the slides and frames and internals were machined parts and not MIM although not the highest of quality in small parts machining. They are supposed to be exact copies of Colts 1911A1. Would this be a good candidate to swap out the internals for some high quality ones and have a 1911 for more then just a range toy?

I know this is opening up a can of worms but would anyone recomand a Sig or S&W for a first 1911 (not as a range toy) even with the external ejector?

I am not acquainted with the Remington models. The norinco would be a good platform to build on, but in order to upgrade the sights and other assorted internals, it might be more cost effective to leave it as it is because their supply is dried up and won't be coming back anytime soon.

As for the Sig/S&W. My complaint concerns the external extractor. And for this, I appeal to history:

That is a photo of the prototype JMB built to become the 1911. He used an external extractor, but modified the design to incorporate the internal extractor. I trust JMB over the plethora of engineers over at Sig and S&W. And take Kimber for example, they introduced their pistols with external extractors and within a few years they only produced the internal design. Just my two cents.

[WillBrink]

many people also don't realize that Springfield Armories guns aren't made in the U.S. either. .

I believe that is not correct, but if you have good source, I'd like to read it. My understanding is, their lower priced offerings are produced out of the USA, and as you go up the food chain of their 1911s, more of the gun is US made, to their custom/pro level stuff, that's 100% US made.

That's my understanding, and perhaps that's changed, but the info came from someone who works as SA.