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Thread: Red Dots on Handguns

  1. #11
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    We've been experimenting with RDS on handguns since early this year. Some of the more common electronic sights used in this role include the J-Point, Dr. Optic, ITI MRDS, Trijicon RMR, and Leupold Delta Point. While the micro-Aimpoint T1/H1 will work in this role, they are a bit big for service pistols; however, they are outstanding on game guns and big bore revolvers. While a small 2-4 MOA dot works nicely for pure target shooting, a larger dot of 8 MOA or so seems to be better for most defensive purposes with duty/CCW handguns. As noted, certain lighting conditions can wash-out the dot on the Trijicon self-illuminating RMR, but the LED RMR does not suffer from this problem.

    There are several options to mount a small RDS on duty/CCW handguns; the easiest method is to drift out the standard rear sight and simply add a dove-tail adapter allowing the RDS to bolt on to the side. The lowest profile method and the one that fosters the most natural shooting position is to permanently mil the slide to allow the RDS to sit lower and allow a more natural shooting position. Tall iron sights, as used with suppressors, allows a rough co-witness with the RDS and should be considered a mandatory item on a duty/CCW handgun. We have seen one RMR on a G19 stop working, however, it was no big deal, as the iron sights worked flawlessly and allowed an immediate transition with no wasted time or missed shots. In addition, the front and rear iron sights definitely help in finding the red dot if the initial presentation/index is a bit off.

    There is no greater difficulty carrying an RDS equipped handgun compared to one with standard iron sights. The Alessi DOJ-open port, Comp Tac Belt Holster, and Peters Spada work perfectly with small slide mounted RDS, while the Raven RCS and CCC Looper required minor modification to the front edge of the shirt guard. The Dale Fricke (http://dalefrickeholsters.com) Seraphim IWB holster has become our favorite CCW holster as it is specifically designed for use with pistols having an RMR mounted--so far it is working very well when used for IWB at 3-4 o'clock, as well as AIWB at 12 to 1 o'clock or so. Fricke also makes an outstanding OWB holster for RMR equipped pistols--the Gideon Elite. We have modified a lot of 6004's and 6280's to work with RDS equipped pistols. As yet we have not come up with a good modification for Safariland ALS holsters. Holsters Plus (http://www.holstersplus.com) makes their nice Sure-Lock line of OWB concealable kydex holsters which offer a bit less retention than ALS.

    It does take a lot of dry firing/drawing and several thousand live rounds to become proficient. I am still not as quite as fast using the RDS, however, I am substantially more accurate with the RDS, especially at longer ranges. In addition, the RDS allows me to remain fully focused on the threat and not have to transition back to the front sight prior to firing.

    If I still had perfect vision, I might consider staying with irons; however, given the vision changes following my basilar skull fracture last year, as well as the onset of middle-age presbyopia, I personally NEVER want to go back to irons...

  2. #12
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    In addition, the RDS allows me to remain fully focused on the threat and not have to transition back to the front sight prior to firing.
    That is an important point that needs to be considered carefully.

    B_C

  3. #13
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    In my opinion, probably worth about half of what you paid for it, is RDS are helpful for eyesight and helpful under some circumstances manipulating long guns. Bulky and gimmicky on a pistol unless for some kind of competition that doesn't require drawing. I like hi visibility front sights, whether hi-viz as a brand or even Trijicon/Meprolight tritium. As a prior poster said, learn to use a handgun well and the sight issue is simpler.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Business_Casual View Post
    Fair enough.

    If you go with a battery RMR, put a fresh battery in it before you mount and zero it.

    I predict that they will become very popular and then fizzle out when the "shoot fast miss fast" crowd realize that the limited alignment forces you to slow down and aim carefully. If there's one thing handgunners I see at the range don't like, it is aiming.

    B_C
    If you use one, why all the dismissal of the idea? Don't you think its a good idea if you use it?
    Last edited by Spiffums; 10-27-10 at 10:44.

  5. #15
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    My good buddy on my dept recently got one for his duty Glock 21C.

    On Saturday we had my depts annual state wide LEO shooting match and he did awesome with the red dot. He told me it took him a few hundred draws to learn how the dot would come up, but after that it was second nature.

    Shooting with him that day he was definitely not slow on aquiring the dot and target.

    He also switched out his battery that day and it held zero. His also has a set of irons on the rear of the site.
    C co 1/30th Infantry Regiment
    3rd Brigade 3rd Infantry Division
    2002-2006
    OIF 1 and 3

    IraqGunz:
    No dude is going to get shot in the chest at 300 yards and look down and say "What is that, a 3 MOA group?"

  6. #16
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    captbarty--You do realize that some of our Nation's premier warriors are using RDS equipped handguns on duty and in combat? They are not doing so because "the concept is bulky and gimmicky on a pistol" and I guarantee these guys are needing to draw from a holster.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by M4arc View Post
    Thanks for all the great info Magz!

    B_C, how about some pictures?
    Of course and you are always welcome to try my pistol.







    I'm not "dismissing" red dots on pistols, I just have some concerns. Further to that point, if people are looking for a magic pistol sight that will correct their many and obvious problems with trigger control and recoil management, this won't solve those problems. The same as on a carbine, where it won't solve those problems either.

    The first "R" by the way, stands for Ruggedized, http://www.trijicon.com/user/parts/p...tegoryID=13B_C
    Last edited by Business_Casual; 10-27-10 at 12:45.

  8. #18
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    I have a question for those that have run this set-up. The deltapoint and rmr led are auto for brightness(I think). I saw another post where a new rmr model is coming out with the ability to adjust dot intensity. Is this one more step in the right direction or not needed ? I know I like being able to adjust my h-1. Thanks Brad

  9. #19
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    I put an RMR on a S&W 686. Love it!

  10. #20
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    Variable intensity is nice--it is one of the features that has been useful on the ITI MRDS, but it is not critical.

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