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Thread: Red Dots on Handguns

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by DocGKR View Post
    captbarty--You do realize that some of our Nation's premier warriors are using RDS equipped handguns on duty and in combat? They are not doing so because "the concept is bulky and gimmicky on a pistol" and I guarantee these guys are needing to draw from a holster.
    You are quite correct but you used two very important words - "premier warriors." There is no doubt that they can make full use of and derive benefit from that level of sophistication. The original poster asked about "defensive use". I interpreted that to mean, perhaps incorrectly, that it would be for an individual in a defensive situation. I benefited from some words of wisdom imparted by usmc03 on this site regarding home defense use of an M4 in which usmc03 commented that irons were preferred because "invasions happen quickly ..... not waiting for one to turn on electronic devices ..." and went on to recommend irons with a good light. Experimentation and testing convinced me. I use a Meprolight front with a foregrip mounted light. Of course, that's an M4. On one of my revolvers which has a rail, I use a light I mount on that rail and an integral red dot (though I recognize some of the liabilities of those) which is turned on by momentary thumb pressure. I never use one on a carry weapon and when I've had to use a weapon in the (thankfully distant) past, it was with actually very rudimentary irons; fortunately, I'm still here.

    So, that's the reasoning. Special operations has different requirements than I got from the initial post. Also, those holsters which allow RDS are specialized and larger. I appreciate your comments but I think we are at cross-purposes.
    Last edited by REDinFL; 10-27-10 at 15:51.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by captbarty View Post
    I interpreted that to mean, perhaps incorrectly, that it would be for an individual in a defensive situation. I benefited from some words of wisdom imparted by usmc03 on this site regarding home defense use of an M4 in which usmc03 commented that irons were preferred because "invasions happen quickly ..... not waiting for one to turn on electronic devices ..." and went on to recommend irons with a good light. Experimentation and testing convinced me.
    Are the pistol red dots such as the Trijicon RMR "always on" like an Aimpoint or do they auto off like the EOTechs? What is battery life like? Can you leave it on on a nightstand gun for weeks or months and have it up and running when you need it?

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by jck397 View Post
    Are the pistol red dots such as the Trijicon RMR "always on" like an Aimpoint or do they auto off like the EOTechs? What is battery life like? Can you leave it on on a nightstand gun for weeks or months and have it up and running when you need it?
    Always on and claims for 35,000 hours in dark storage. What does that mean to you and me? Shrug. But some of us are working on finding out.

    B_C

  4. #24
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    Gentlemen,

    Great input. I still have a question.

    How repeatable are the windage and elevation adjustments?

    Are they linear?

    Thanks.

  5. #25
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    captbarty--I must disagree, as I would much rather relay on an RDS equipped weapon in any personal defensive situation, since I am more likely to get accurate hits--especially in low light conditions and against multiple moving opponents. Any quality RDS is kept in the "on" position at all times, so there is NO need to "turn on electronic devices", for example Aimpoints on carbines and shotguns, as well as RMR's on pistols. If you worry about it, change the batteries every year or two. You might also note that USMC03 has updated his recommendations after originally writing the comments several years ago and now states: "Hits on target will always be faster and easier to acquire with a red dot sight (such as an Aimpoint) than with iron sights." "I leave all of my Aimpoints on 24/7.....just leave it on and change the batteries on a regular basis."

    I am also quite confused about your holster commentary, as I use the exact same holsters for RDS and iron sighted pistols (Alessi DOJ, RCS Phantom, CCC Looper, Fricke Seraphim and Gideon, Saf 6004, etc...) there are NO size difference because they are the same holsters.

    -----------------

    The windage and elevation on the Trij RMR and ITI MRDS have been quite solid and repeatable over the last year; the Leup Deltapoint also seems OK, but we are just getting started with trying those, so have no sense of durability.
    Last edited by DocGKR; 10-28-10 at 03:03.

  6. #26
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    I rather just have a laser like crimson trace. I would not want a red dot on my handguns. Maybe I am old fashioned now, but as been said about cons, "unless pristen" one is going to be trying to find the dot. That is enough to get me not to rush out for it. I admit I would try it on a gun if a friend had one, but it just looks cluncky too me.
    Member of the JPFO, NRA, and TSRA!

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by DocGKR View Post
    The lowest profile method and the one that fosters the most natural shooting position is to permanently mil the slide to allow the RDS to sit lower and allow a more natural shooting position. Tall iron sights, as used with suppressors, allows a rough co-witness with the RDS and should be considered a mandatory item on a duty/CCW handgun.

    Now if Glock would just make it a factory option...
    NOT in training for combat deployment.

  8. #28
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    I have somewhere north of 1500 rounds through my G17 with dual illum RMR.

    No issues so far.

    I know Kelly McCann was the originator of this idea but Gabe Suarez has really taken the drivers seat on this.

    I suggest checking out the subforum on Warriortalk devoted to just this concept.

    http://warriortalk.com/forumdisplay.php?f=205

  9. #29
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    I have been running them off an on for years on various guns.

    Trijicon RMR bar far is the best of them i have things to them that made there engineers cry it holds zero through battery changes

    the new version is and will be even better with adjustable brightness and NV settings and longer battery life

    No issues with them in rain A/C to heat
    STEVE FISHER
    INSTRUCTOR
    Sentinel Concepts

    Consultant for
    Trijicon
    midwest industries
    Nighthawk custom firearms

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by NotDylan View Post
    This appears to be the new hot ticket on defensive handguns, particularly the Trijicon RMR and Leupold Deltapoint. While there are a few threads here on M4C about the subject, none of them are very detailed. I was hoping to get a little more info from people who have experience with this setup.

    -What issue, if any, have you had with your setup?
    -Pros/Cons?
    -LED or Dual ilumination
    -Dot type/MOA size
    -Mounting methods/Placement
    -Ect.

    I have been running an M&P with an RMR for awhile now (in classes with bad weather, CQB schools, etc) and have really learned to like it.

    The main issue to me is that you will be slightly slower on your draw and fire. Now we are not talking about much, but still about .25-.50.

    If you do not have good control over the gun, you will lose the dot as you shoot multiple shots or move from target to target.

    I am running the dual illuminated RMR with an 7MOA dot. I chose it because it is bomb proof (nothing to break). There is a washout concern in certain cirumstances (like being in a dark room and attempting to shoot into a bright area). To date though, I have not had any washout issues.

    The best all around dot size I think is 7-8 MOA. It is big enough for speed, but not too big that you cannot shoot 8" targets past 100yds.

    My slide has been milled out and the RMR is connected directly to it.

    With any RDS, you need to have a back up system. Some like irons sights (co-witnessed) and others like laser grips. Some have both. Just depends on what you want.

    For me, lasers (like the CT brand) are still king in CQB environments (even faster than a RDS). So that is what I go with.


    C4



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