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Last edited by C4IGrant; 10-28-10 at 16:57.
Grant- I've heard mixed things... if you're in a dark house, how does the dual illuminate rmr deal with a bright white light in the way of washout?
Acta Non Verba
Some of the posts on this thread are absolutely insane. They're either coming from some tactical expert who has no tactical experience, or from someone with firm opinions on speed and accuracy but who has no competitive experience.
Anything with a red dot can't be used by anyone but tier one operators out of the holster? Are you kidding me?
Slower to pick up a target on the draw? Are you kidding me?
There have been other crazy comments made by people who know full-well that they have no experience in what they're talking about, but they refuse to admit it.
Red dots offer a few advantages: 1. They allow the shooter to be target focused. 2. They allow for a significant increase in speed. This is a result of the target focus. Whereas normally a shooter focuses on the front sight, then snaps his eyes to the next target, then brings the front sight into focus on that target in time to make the shot before snapping his eyes to the next target, and so on; with the red dot you simply focus on the target, see the dot on the target (no need to focus on the dot), fire, and snap to the next target.
There are some misconceptions, however. You can't really expect a significant increase in accuracy. Most accuracy problems come from a bad grip and specifically a bad trigger pull. The dot has nothing to do with that. Plus, an 8MOA dot at long range is not going to be the most precise tool, so the whole "long range accuracy" claim is a bit of a crock - not to mention the significant increase in sight-offset that results from mounting a red dot to your pistol (and the resulting zero issues - if you're dead on at 15 yards how high are you at 30?). In any case, very few people have trouble aligning their sights, just like very few people have trouble putting the dot on a target. Aiming is the easy part. It's keeping the sights or dot on the target while you're pulling the trigger that's the hard part. If you're way overgripping with your strong hand or snatching the trigger, your shot will be just as bad with a red dot as it was with iron sights. You'll still miss - but faster!
With the above said, for a good shooter red dots offer a significant advantage. After all - you don't see ANY IPSC/USPSA Open shooters opting to use a gun with iron sights anymore, do you? It may take a little more time for the concept and the technology to catch up with the legitimate tactical crowd to the point that they're standard on duty pistols, but it will happen eventually.
Last edited by beltjones; 10-28-10 at 22:42.
Actually red dot sights have been used in USPSA and ISPC for years on open class pistols and this sport does require drawing. We do use special holsters however. I just stepped into open class myself. It does take some getting used to but I am very hopefull of the new smaller dots on duty guns. The main issue will be durability.
Pat
Serving as a LEO since 1999.
USPSA# A56876 A Class
Firearms Instructor
Armorer for AR15, 1911, Glocks and Remington 870 shotguns.
Your correct on the dot not improving pure accuracy but it did help me way back when I was a freshman in college. I was just starting out in bullseye and a friend had a dot on his pistol. I could see when I was flinching by the dot dropping out of view. I was able to correct the problem once I knew what I was doing. From that point of view they can help you with your accuracy.
pat
Serving as a LEO since 1999.
USPSA# A56876 A Class
Firearms Instructor
Armorer for AR15, 1911, Glocks and Remington 870 shotguns.
Where do you guys get the mounts from the RMR for your handguns. Is there any for 1911's
Pat
Serving as a LEO since 1999.
USPSA# A56876 A Class
Firearms Instructor
Armorer for AR15, 1911, Glocks and Remington 870 shotguns.
Ahh. Good point. They may provide more obvious feedback, but it's up to the shooter to make use of it.
The people on this thread who are saying that the put a dot on their gun and suddenly their accuracy improved are likely telling tales. Regardless of what some will claim, it's not as simple as just putting the dot where you want the bullet to go and just mashing on the trigger.
One very valid point that I didn't address is the fact that red dots seem to be very helpful for people with aging eyes. It takes a lot of "ocular dexterity" to snap from targets to sights and back to the next target. Likewise, a lot of farsighted people have trouble focusing on the front sight the way they need to. The red dot makes that much less of an issue.
Thanks for saying this. I was going to mention something, but you've already called the Bravo Sierra on those that seem to be all hat and no 'cattle'.
I've ran quite a bit of rounds through at G19 equipped w/ Trijicon RMR 8 MOA, built by Bowie Tactical. Like a lot of trickle down techniques, gear etc from the competition world, this set up is faster for all the reasons that beltjones already mentioned. If you want the skinny on a set up, call Bowie yourself like I did. The Trijicon RMR has been solid, which says a lot for me since I consider holster wear & 500-1000rds a week a beautiful thing.
Will post up some thoughts, video and pictures at a later time.
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