The Official Why My DPMS, Del-Ton, Oly Arms, Etc. Is Better Than Anything Else Thread

[R Moran]

Gotcha.

Thanks,
Bob

[Iraqgunz]

Paul,

Thanks for sharing your thoughts and experience with us.

[Rmplstlskn]

I think all this ties in with the glitz & glam "Gun Mag" industry, and as the "gun mag" thread here pokes fun of, the bought-off "gun experts" that rave and praise whatever crap they were given to write about this month. People read that drivel and believe it... No escaping the influence upon those who do not yet know better.

For some it takes YEARS to break free of AR ignorance... I have been recreationally shooting AR's since the early 80's, and I do not know when I "saw the light," and I still have much baggage to UNLEARN. Sometimes it is just pure ECONOMICS... I have yet to afford a Noveske, but I have been able to swing a Colt and Sabre. Sometimes it is just as simple as $$$...

This site, the CHART, and our reviews here will turn those that want to turn, and piss off those not yet ready.

Rmpl

[jeepnut83]

I owned a dpms m4 style for years and it was a "good rifle" this was back in 2003 and it served me well for a bush-gun, But one of my mentors taught me all about AR-15's (and many other rifles) and I learn from that point that the bolt and barrel are really the heart of your rifle so one should never skimp on thoses parts, that why I build my own uppers. so I know whats in my rifles, but with companies like Bravo offering the great bang for the buck uppers, bcg, etc; I don't know why people with a sub par gun would not at least upgrade to a BC, bcg just my two cents.

[kal]

The AR15 system has no room for error when it comes to the quality of materials, dimensions, and manufacturing protocol. This is why this system gets a bad rap because of certain companies and their tendency to cut corners.

If an AKM chamber is a little too tight for extraction, no worries, the cartridge taper will help. If not the taper, then the big extractor. Something like the 7.62x39mm AKM has multiple fail safes to deal with one potential problem. The AR15 does not.

The reason for AR15 bolts to be made of a certain type of metal and be shot peened, etc, etc, is because of its small size. I wonder if a Galil bolt is shot peened or made of a metal equal or superior to a mil-spec AR15 bolt......

With the AR15, it must be built 100% mil-spec, or it will have issues.

[justin_247]

I recommend we add some criteria for this thread. It's one thing to say, "I own a ton of DPMS rifles, some with 15,000 rds through them, without any that regularly malfunction." But it's quite another to explain why they have performed that well. So, I think each user should state:

(a) when they purchased the rifle
(b) the number of rounds fired and the number of malfunctions
(c) if the gas key and castle nut are properly staked
(d) if the BCG is semi or full auto
(e) what kind of buffer it came with
(f) whether M-4 feed ramps are present or not
(g) if possible, whether it has a 5.56 chamber or not

I would not be at all surprised if DPMS and their ilk sent a ton of T&E rifles that actually were built pretty close to spec in order to increase their presence. And I would not be at all surprised if the rifles used by the 3-gun competitors they sponsor had some significant upgrades that you don't see in the rifles they sell to gun shops.

[ldirel]

I recommend we add some criteria for this thread. It's one thing to say, "I own a ton of DPMS rifles, some with 15,000 rds through them, without any that regularly malfunction." But it's quite another to explain why they have performed that well. So, I think each user should state:

(a) when they purchased the rifle
(b) the number of rounds fired and the number of malfunctions
(c) if the gas key and castle nut are properly staked
(d) if the BCG is semi or full auto
(e) what kind of buffer it came with
(f) whether M-4 feed ramps are present or not
(g) if possible, whether it has a 5.56 chamber or not

I would not be at all surprised if DPMS and their ilk sent a ton of T&E rifles that actually were built pretty close to spec in order to increase their presence. And I would not be at all surprised if the rifles used by the 3-gun competitors they sponsor had some significant upgrades that you don't see in the rifles they sell to gun shops.

Good idea. I left a couple of those things out so I'll go back and edit my post.

Also, and I'm sure someone with experience tere will chime in, but from what I've read and heard the DPMS 3 gun rifles are pretty much custom guns in DPMS clothing. I really don't see how they could be anything else.

[120mm]

The AR15 system has no room for error when it comes to the quality of materials, dimensions, and manufacturing protocol. This is why this system gets a bad rap because of certain companies and their tendency to cut corners.
<snip>
With the AR15, it must be built 100% mil-spec, or it will have issues.

Actually, I disagree to a certain degree with this.

I think the engineering of the AR system is still amazingly tolerant of all kind of material, dimension and manufacturing asshattery. This is why we get dumbasses on here all the time stating their Plum Crazy or Blackthorne $300 AR kicks ass. Those crappy rifles still somehow manage to run, despite the steep hill they have in front of them, thanks to a myriad of reasons why they shouldn't work.

It's nowhere near as finicky as advertised.

However, if you buy a bunch of them, and run them hard, those things will show in increased failure rates.

[Paul Howe]

Thanks for all the feedback and I appreciate the guys with all the internal knowledge of the AR platforms. I have shot the platform for over 30 years, but I have never taken an armorers class.

I have an instructor/operator class next week and will have over 35 students at one point. I will will track all malfunctions, stoppages, make, mileage on the gun, etc., during the course and attempt to attribute a cause and report back to this forum.

I conduct a weapons maintenance class on day two for the instructors and on the final day for the two-day student class.

Thanks,

Paul

[Doc Safari]

I don't understand this eagerness to skimp on things like HP and MPI where critical parts like the bolt are concerned. If the rifle comes apart because the bolt was substandard then all those specs suddenly will become important to you.

It was nothing but Colt for me mostly, although I did buy into the hype that Bushmaster was just as good for a while. Several malfunctions and other QC problems later I got rid of the Bushmasters and decided never again would I settle for lower quality just to save a few hundred bucks.