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Thread: case extraction problems

  1. #11
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    Yeah, Barnaul is steel, and steel isn't as elastic as brass, so smut can collect in the chamber. Going from steel to brass, this symptom will show up faster. Shoot enough steel, it'll still happen, just take a bit more time, generally speaking.

    Making sure that the chamber is lubed somewhat when using steel-case is always a good idea. Everything else (carrier, bolt, inside of the upper receiver) can be decently lubed, but if the smut that steel allows to blow into the chamber is dry, it can turn problematic. Lube the chamber a bit, and suspend that crud in fluid. I'd try this, the most simple thing, first.

    Could be that the chamber needs reaming. If it's a true 5.56, a reamer won't hurt anything, so nothing is lost; almost diagnostic, in that case. If it's NOT a true 5.56, it'll help ensure a greater range of ammo types that can be shot.

    Is it just me, or is that a distinctly extractor-sized chunk of rim taken off of that casing? Kartoffel pointed that out, too. Does that mean weak extractor, if it was on well enough to rip material off of the rim in the attempt to extract? I'm asking, not sharpshooting...
    Contractor scum, AAV

  2. #12
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    my two cents

    Well ko way to know via the world wide web. But I bet if you MOACKS ream the chamber, and use a BCM extractor, spring and insert kit the problem will cease to exist.
    Good luck
    Toxic

  3. #13
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    I wouldn't worry so much about the extractor since it is strong enough to tear off the rim. Doesn't look like it is slipping over the case rim. It would be a cheap fix or test, but don't think it will be the fix.

    I owned a Bushmaster carbine 8-9 years ago that would choke on Wolf. Can't remember if it was tearing the rims off, but it did require a GI cleaning rod to remove. It wouldn't take many rounds to start choking either. Sold the rifle so I never diagnosed the specific issue with it other than not shooting steel cased ammo.

  4. #14
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    I'd start with cleaning the chamber really well to remove any carbon and trying some good quality brass cased ammo.

    Most ammo measures .246" to .248" at the neck, with the steel running on the low side of that.

    The necks on most chambers run .254" - .255". That seems like a lot of clearance.

    I suspect with generous neck clearances, the steel case is not flexible to make a good seal and allows fouling to build up in the chamber, causing stuck cases.

    The extractor ripping the rim off also points to a stuck case.
    Last edited by Clint; 11-25-10 at 22:55.
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  5. #15
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    Barnaul Silver Bear

    It looks like the cases are Barnaul Silver Bear in 223, a zinc coated steel case. I use Silver Bear extensively and they function very well in several ARs I have with NATO chambers and it's not a "hot" round in terms of velocity.

    I looked at your pictures and my cases definitely do not look like yours with those black marks; my cases look pretty clean after extraction. If the Wolf you are shooting is laquered steel, I would not shoot it in an AR unless you clean the chamber while the gun is hot. I recommend you don't oil the chamber of a gun not going into storage, it might make a bad situation worse.

    I think that the first step is to scrub the chamber with a good solvent so that it is very clean, and then shoot the Barnaul to see if that cures the problem.

  6. #16
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    spdldr

    Often, lube on the case or in the chamber is a good thing. Some Camp Perry shooters have done it for years with no problems.
    file:///Users/dave/Documents/Longevity%20of%20.308%20cases%20(link%20to%20Jouster%20thread)%20-%20THR.webarchive

    It will not hurt the weapon and usually makes it run better, especially in adverse conditions. A failure to extract is a serious malfunction and can usually be prevented by a little grease or wax on the case.

    Dave

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  7. #17
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    spdldr

    Maybe this will work better.

    http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=19069

    Dave

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  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthPark View Post
    I recommend you don't oil the chamber of a gun not going into storage, it might make a bad situation worse.
    Lemme guess, because lube attracts particulates, right?

    If that's your rationale, you're dead wrong. The particulates will be there no matter what; they blow back because steel isn't as elastic as brass, so you end up with more smut. Having the smut suspended in a skim-coat of fluid is of far greater efficacy that having them sit unlubed so that they may grind. Grinding = bad. What you're describing above is ASKING for stuck cases.

    If that's not your rationale, I'm genuinely interested in finding out what the rationale behind that is, since you decided to just drop a recommendation without explaining the why of it. Don't mistake me, cleaning the chamber prior to the next shooting isn't a bad call, but applying lube has the ancillary benefit of making it so you don't have to make cleaning the chamber a ritual like that of Man-Love Thursdays in Arabic nations.

    Cases can look as dirty as they need to, so long as they come out. There's nothing out of the ordinary with the markings on that case, be it Tula, Barnaul, Wolf, or any other steel-case ammo one would care to mention. The goal is not to make his cases look clean, it's to get them to vacate the premises in deference to the next inhabitants, none of whom care about how dirty/oily the apartment is.
    Last edited by JSantoro; 11-07-10 at 18:11.
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  9. #19
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    We had an instructor tell us not to oil the chamber because oil/lube doens't compress. Thus it can alter the chamber pressure consistency. Not an issue for non precision shooters, but.. there's really no need to have a bunch of lube left in the chamber.

  10. #20
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    Yeah, I get the non-compression of oil aspect, but I've never gotten how a lot of folks can read or hear the words "lube the chamber," and somehow think that means to get out your Tin Woodsman oil can and go to town. No, I'm not saying that that's what you did; others, though...

    As an tangent to how it's not a concern to non-precision shooters, it's a pretty good guess that if somebody is shooting Barnaul and the like, precision isn't in the forefront of their mind.
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