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Thread: Magpul BAD lever with Norgon Ambi Mag release

  1. #21
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    I have a Knights ambi mag somewhere, but that absolutely doesn't work with the BAD. The Norgon works, but frankly I haven't used it in left hand mode very much, especially in higher stress situations. That Troy seems to be the real solution. Lots more clearance.

    Now will any of them work with that new Magazine/bolt manipulator that someone posted recently?

  2. #22
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    Thanks for the pic KSM....but it raises the same issues.

    If you're shooting left handed.

    To reach the Norgon/Troy you have to reach around the BAD lever and carefully activate it without putting pressure on the BAD which would result in dropping the bolt prematurely and thereby adding yet a whole other step to the reload.

    Of course this presumes you're keeping the gun in the vertical plane and not rolling it inboard as many people do which would cause the weight of the gun to fall on the extended finger resulting in a premature bolt release.

    On a square range in normal conditions this is feasible. In the heat of the moment and under stress this becomes a lot more problematic.

    Like I said, it trades ambidextrous viability in favor of better speed/functionality for the right hand only. For the lefty, the BAD is a no-go, for the right-handed shooter you need to spend a lot of time practicing/training in order to overcome some inherent limitations.
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  3. #23
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    I'm sitting here with a BAD and Norgon and what you wrote below doesn't seem to jive with the actual set-up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gutshot John View Post
    To reach the Norgon/Troy you have to reach around the BAD lever and carefully activate it without putting pressure on the BAD which would result in dropping the bolt prematurely and thereby adding yet a whole other step to the reload.
    I don't think so. If the bolt is locked back, the BAD is pressed up against the receiver. Any miss-pressure around the Norgon will only depress it more and will not drop the bolt. If you do reach up and hit the top of the BAD, it will drop the bolt, but that would happen with a standard bolt catch too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gutshot John View Post
    Of course this presumes you're keeping the gun in the vertical plane and not rolling it inboard as many people do which would cause the weight of the gun to fall on the extended finger resulting in a premature bolt release.
    May I suggest finger push-ups? I'm not sure what you mean here, unless you are backwards on the BAD operation as above.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gutshot John View Post
    On a square range in normal conditions this is feasible. In the heat of the moment and under stress this becomes a lot more problematic.
    I have only tried the BAD on the square range, and it works exquisitely. I have gotten so used to it, it almost makes me want to sell my LMT MWS due to the old hand jive needed to lock back teh bolt or work malfs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gutshot John View Post
    Like I said, it trades ambidextrous viability in favor of better speed/functionality for the right hand only. For the lefty, the BAD is a no-go, for the right-handed shooter you need to spend a lot of time practicing/training in order to overcome some inherent limitations.

    You are left-handed, but I do have a left hand and I'm just not seeing the issues that you are stating- and it seems that you have it backwards as to which way the BAD moves to do what. I realize that the bad is not much of an advantage for Lefties, and I agree that you sinister folks would be far better off with a ambi-mag than a BAD- but to say that the BAD requires a lot of re-training I think is incorrect. I know that there is a lot of personal preference in how people run their guns, but I would hate for someone to read this thread and forgo a BAD. Looking forward to your response so we can clear this up.

  4. #24
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    I ran a BAD hard in a DMR class when my FAL went down with ammo issues. Everything I described was accurate and happened to me during normal function of the gun. As I've said before I tried to like the BAD, it's just not conducive to left-handed operation based on first-hand experience.

    YMMV but other lefties I know have experienced the same.
    Last edited by Gutshot John; 11-11-10 at 22:25.
    It is bad policy to fear the resentment of an enemy. -Ethan Allen

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutshot John View Post
    I ran a BAD hard in a DMR class when my FAL went down with ammo issues. Everything I described was accurate and happened to me during normal function of the gun. As I've said before I tried to like the BAD, it's just not conducive to left-handed operation based on first-hand experience.

    YMMV but other lefties I know have experienced the same.
    I'll admit I'm confused about what you're saying, and I'm a left handed rifle shooter.

    With the bolt locked to the rear, pressing on the arm of the BAD lever doesn't release the bolt, pulling it out would. I can mash on it all I want, it isn't going to release anything unless you either get your finger underneath and lift it outward, or press the top of it. Pressing the arm of the BAD into the receiver is the motion that locks the bolt to the rear, not release it.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by KSM View Post
    I'll admit I'm confused about what you're saying, and I'm a left handed rifle shooter.

    With the bolt locked to the rear, pressing on the arm of the BAD lever doesn't release the bolt, pulling it out would. I can mash on it all I want, it isn't going to release anything unless you either get your finger underneath and lift it outward, or press the top of it. Pressing the arm of the BAD into the receiver is the motion that locks the bolt to the rear, not release it.
    I suppose it could be because I keep my finger angled as far away from the trigger guard as possible when not shooting to prevent it from slipping inside, this would put your finger directly on the button or provide enough contact to drop the bolt.

    The bottom line was that in manipulating the gun during shooting/moving/reloads there is enough jostling that it dropped the bolt repeatedly. I've heard the same complaint from numerous other lefties. If the assertion is that it's impossible to do what I suggest I promise you it's not.

    As I said before, if you like the BAD, my opinion is only my own. People however should be given a chance to make an informed decision and understand that there are potential drawbacks.
    Last edited by Gutshot John; 11-12-10 at 11:30.
    It is bad policy to fear the resentment of an enemy. -Ethan Allen

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by FromMyColdDeadHand View Post
    I don't know what the etiquitte is, but Stickman has a pic of a Norgon and a Bad. The link is at:

    http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=...1t:429,r:3,s:0

    or I just used Google picture search for "norgon ambi-catch bad lever".


    Thanks, here is another image that shows it without the angle.


    Stick


    Board policy mandates I state that I shoot for BCM. I have also done work for 200 or so manufacturers within the firearm community. I am prior service, a full time LEO, firearm instructor, armorer, TL, martial arts instructor, and all around good guy.

    I also shoot and write for various publications. Let me know if you know cool secrets or have toys worthy of an article...


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  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by KSM View Post
    Only had it on for a month or so. Taken it through a 2 day class and a 4 hour training day (all within dept) so far, on top of range time and dry fire manipulations on my own. So far, I'd say it's a 10, like you would expect from pretty much any Troy product. It's functioned 100% (as a left-handed shooter, which means I actually use it). To my surprise, this whole left-handed rifle shooter thing wasn't nearly as difficult to get the hang of as I thought it would (I'm a very right-handed person).

    Since I have to bust out all my gear and guns and clean the hell out of them tomorrow (today's training involved lots of lying in mud puddles), I'll snap some pics of it with the BAD lever and post them.
    Thanks for the photo the Troy looks great.
    "Real men have always needed to know what time it is so they are at the airfield on time, pumping rounds into savages at the right time, etc. Being able to see such in the dark while light weights were comfy in bed without using a light required luminous material." -Originally Posted by ramairthree

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutshot John View Post
    I suppose it could be because I keep my finger angled as far away from the trigger guard as possible when not shooting to prevent it from slipping inside, this would put your finger directly on the button or provide enough contact to drop the bolt.

    The bottom line was that in manipulating the gun during shooting/moving/reloads there is enough jostling that it dropped the bolt repeatedly. I've heard the same complaint from numerous other lefties. If the assertion is that it's impossible to do what I suggest I promise you it's not.

    As I said before, if you like the BAD, my opinion is only my own. People however should be given a chance to make an informed decision and understand that there are potential drawbacks.
    Thanks John for the input. I wonder if tighter or looser bolt catches themselves, or maybe recoil spring resistance, might play into how sensative the BAD makes the system. I know I have to really mash the top of the BAD/bolt-catch when working it left handed to get it to drop the bolt.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutshot John View Post
    I suppose it could be because I keep my finger angled as far away from the trigger guard as possible when not shooting to prevent it from slipping inside, this would put your finger directly on the button or provide enough contact to drop the bolt.

    The bottom line was that in manipulating the gun during shooting/moving/reloads there is enough jostling that it dropped the bolt repeatedly. I've heard the same complaint from numerous other lefties. If the assertion is that it's impossible to do what I suggest I promise you it's not.

    As I said before, if you like the BAD, my opinion is only my own. People however should be given a chance to make an informed decision and understand that there are potential drawbacks.
    That makes more sense now, thanks for clarifying!

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