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Thread: Registered SBR lowers

  1. #21
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    The way I understand is this. If a manufacturer builds a lower and they register it as an SBR lower then it must be transferred as an NFA item.

    AFAIK it does not have to be a complete weapon. Also on a similar note we have discussed SBR lowers that were built on a Form 1 by an individual. As I understand the ATF ruling if you take a lower and remove the short upper and put a 16" upper you could then take the weapon into another non-NFA state.

    So I guess I am missing the point of the ARFcom nerd.



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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by polymorpheous View Post
    SBR lowers
    Sorry but they do not exist in the NFA. A short barreled rifle has a barrel less than 16" and a stock.

    Machine gun receivers are subject to the NFA for transfer, this is probably the reason for the confusion.

    http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/nati...-shotguns.html

    Q: What is the registered part of a Short Barreled Rifle (SBR) or Short Barreled Shotgun (SBS)?
    A: While a receiver alone may be classified as a “firearm” under the Gun Control Act (GCA), SBRs and SBSs are classified in totality under the National Firearms Act (NFA). A firearm that meets the definition of a SBR consists of a rifle that has a barrel less than 16 inches in length. A SBS consists of a shotgun that has a barrel less than 18 inches in length. The serialized receiver is recorded for registration in the National Firearms Registration and Transfer Record (NFRTR).

    Q: I possess a properly registered SBR or SBS. I intend to strip the receiver and remove the barrel prior to selling the receiver. Is the bare receiver still subject to regulation under the NFA as a SBR or SBS?
    A: A stripped receiver without a barrel does not meet the definition of a SBR or SBS under the NFA. Although the previously registered firearm would remain registered unless the possessor notified the NFA Branch of the change, there is no provision in statute or regulation requiring registration of a firearm without a barrel because its physical characteristics would make it only a GCA “firearm” pursuant to 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(3)(B). If the subsequent owner buys the receiver as a GCA firearm and installs a barrel less than 16 inches in length (SBR) or 18 inches in length (SBS), the firearm would be subject to a $200 making tax and registration under the NFA by the manufacturer or maker of the SBR or SBS. Because registration depends upon the stated intent of the applicant, there is no provision to allow registration of a NFA firearm by anyone other than the maker or manufacturer.

  3. #23
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    Todd,

    I believe that the operative word here is "stripped", correct? If the lower is assembled and has a stock added then it has to be transferred like any other NFA item, correct?

    Quote Originally Posted by Todd.K View Post
    Sorry but they do not exist in the NFA. A short barreled rifle has a barrel less than 16" and a stock.

    Machine gun receivers are subject to the NFA for transfer, this is probably the reason for the confusion.

    http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/nati...-shotguns.html

    Q: What is the registered part of a Short Barreled Rifle (SBR) or Short Barreled Shotgun (SBS)?
    A: While a receiver alone may be classified as a “firearm” under the Gun Control Act (GCA), SBRs and SBSs are classified in totality under the National Firearms Act (NFA). A firearm that meets the definition of a SBR consists of a rifle that has a barrel less than 16 inches in length. A SBS consists of a shotgun that has a barrel less than 18 inches in length. The serialized receiver is recorded for registration in the National Firearms Registration and Transfer Record (NFRTR).

    Q: I possess a properly registered SBR or SBS. I intend to strip the receiver and remove the barrel prior to selling the receiver. Is the bare receiver still subject to regulation under the NFA as a SBR or SBS?
    A: A stripped receiver without a barrel does not meet the definition of a SBR or SBS under the NFA. Although the previously registered firearm would remain registered unless the possessor notified the NFA Branch of the change, there is no provision in statute or regulation requiring registration of a firearm without a barrel because its physical characteristics would make it only a GCA “firearm” pursuant to 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(3)(B). If the subsequent owner buys the receiver as a GCA firearm and installs a barrel less than 16 inches in length (SBR) or 18 inches in length (SBS), the firearm would be subject to a $200 making tax and registration under the NFA by the manufacturer or maker of the SBR or SBS. Because registration depends upon the stated intent of the applicant, there is no provision to allow registration of a NFA firearm by anyone other than the maker or manufacturer.



    Owner/Instructor at Semper Paratus Arms

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    Semper Paratus Arms AR15 Armorer Course http://www.semperparatusarms.com/cou...-registration/

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  4. #24
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    My complete SBR lower was at my local Class III dealer during an routine ATF audit. I know they looked at it because the auditor asked what was taking so long for the transfer. They had the owner call the NFA branch and check on the status.

    What violation would we have here? I hope none. It was registered as a SBR by the manufacturer, transferred to a dealer, purchased by me, then transferred to another dealer and finally transferred to me after my form 4 was approved.

    The intent here is to have a properly registered SBR. The fact that it comes to me with out an upper should not matter it is not a permanent alteration. ATF allows us to put a 16" upper 18" bbl on a SBS or SBR to change the guns SBS/SBR status temporarily. The ATF tells us we can then put the SBR upper back on and make it an SBR again.

    I don't see how it is different than me taking a stripped or complete lower filling out a form one and applying for the tax stamp. I would have already engraved the lower with the name of my trust. While I was waiting I could continue using the gun with a 16" upper until or even beyond the time I have the tax stamp in hand. I could also leave the stripped lower stripped and wait. I might not have the money for a new upper and leave the lower in my safe. I took the proper steps and have the proper paperwork.
    "Real men have always needed to know what time it is so they are at the airfield on time, pumping rounds into savages at the right time, etc. Being able to see such in the dark while light weights were comfy in bed without using a light required luminous material." -Originally Posted by ramairthree

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd.K View Post
    Sorry but they do not exist in the NFA. A short barreled rifle has a barrel less than 16" and a stock.

    Machine gun receivers are subject to the NFA for transfer, this is probably the reason for the confusion.
    I should have been more clear on what I meant by a lower.
    I'm talking a complete lower receiver group, not a stripped lower.

    http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin...ey=LWR-BCM-NFA

    BTW Todd, I'm looking at putting a Noveske N4 Basic 10.5" on it around tax time.
    My next stamp after that will be a suppressor.
    Any reliability issues running a suppressor on these uppers?
    Any specifics on gas port diameter?

  6. #26
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    I just checked my tax stamp that I finally received earlier in the week for a complete BCM factory registered SBR lower. The length of barrel is listed as 8 inches. I suppose now I should send a letter to the ATF and tell them the actual barrel length. I don't know which ruling you guys are talking about, just relaying what I bought and what it is registered as. By the way, this factory SBR lower was a good buy, so I hope you are able to find one.

  7. #27
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    Interesting. Mine came as a 10.5" which is as short as I would go with DI but I have a 11.5" BCM upper on it. I have a 10.5" gun too so I am going to leave the bbl length alone.
    "Real men have always needed to know what time it is so they are at the airfield on time, pumping rounds into savages at the right time, etc. Being able to see such in the dark while light weights were comfy in bed without using a light required luminous material." -Originally Posted by ramairthree

  8. #28
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    I asked the gentleman that owns Tactical Innovations about this. He told me he was told by ATF that incomplete rifles could not be transferred as SBR's and he had a stack of lowers with complete paperwork that could now not be sold.

    Chris

  9. #29
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    This is getting interesting. Hopefully he could just build them up.
    "Real men have always needed to know what time it is so they are at the airfield on time, pumping rounds into savages at the right time, etc. Being able to see such in the dark while light weights were comfy in bed without using a light required luminous material." -Originally Posted by ramairthree

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by CCK View Post
    I asked the gentleman that owns Tactical Innovations about this. He told me he was told by ATF that incomplete rifles could not be transferred as SBR's and he had a stack of lowers with complete paperwork that could now not be sold.

    Chris
    No, he has a stack of regular lowers that can be sold as such. He should but does not have to notify the ATF and have them taken off the registry.


    SBR lowers was a pretty common practice but if you read the NFA an SBR does not exist unless it's a rifle (stock) and has a barrel less than 16" attached. If you maintain possession of the short upper you can swap to a 16" and back but that obviously doesn't happen if it's a lower being transferred.

    I can also take my SBR, replace the 10.5" upper with a 16" upper and sell it to my neighbor. Because it's not an SBR unless it has a barrel less than 16" on it.

    Quote Originally Posted by polymorpheous View Post
    BTW Todd, I'm looking at putting a Noveske N4 Basic 10.5" on it around tax time.
    My next stamp after that will be a suppressor.
    Any reliability issues running a suppressor on these uppers?
    Any specifics on gas port diameter?
    You can run a suppressor on our 10.5", the port is big enough but isn't overly large. No problems with .223 pressure ammo and it uses the better H2 buffer.

    If you will be getting a Noveske upper just get one of our lowers and skip the class 3 dealer. You can send in a Noveske lower to be factory registered when you buy a short upper and the SBR transfers back to you on a F4.

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