Comparison Chart of Major AR Brands

**rob_s** · 03-04-11, 05:39

I started a new thread for status updates on the new Chart.
http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?p=928200#post928200

**jklaughrey** · 03-04-11, 07:59

Originally Posted by 3 AE

I have a few good friends in FL. Hope he gives us a heads up so I can warn them when the "slash and burn" is about to commence!

Hell with that, I want to see it go like a re-creation of Sherman's March to the Sea!

**variablebinary** · 03-08-11, 06:47

That whole TWS thing is complete BS. I would be livid.

To outright steal someones work, and then have the balls to modify it without asking...lots of wtf there.

**davidjinks** · 03-08-11, 20:17

Rob,

I don't know you from anything but I like the fact that you don't sugar coat anything. I also appreciate the time and effort you put into your research and the fact that you share it with the rest of us.

I was turned onto this site over a year ago. Since then I have been reading the information posted here just about every night.

My first AR I bought was a "Hi End" one from a well known 1911 maker back in 2005. They touted "Mil Spec" and the best components money can buy. My only experience up until this point was what I was issued in the Army.

I wish I would have known about this information back then. I would have saved myself 1800 dollars and some serious heartburn and headaches.

Since then, my decisions have been based off the knowledge I have gained from YOUR research and some of mine. I've learned stuff that wasn't even taught in the military armorer's course. To be honest, I like the fact that you posted the "RAW" information and dropped the chart itself. In my opinion that gives a good jump off point for those to get out and research what they are looking for based on solid information. At least for me, it challenges me to do more research on the makers and see what they are offering and be able to compare brands.

**Evil Bert** · 03-26-11, 15:10

Rob - Sorry to hear that TWS did that. However, being in the business that I am in and having my children's god parents both corporate attorney's we can tell you this much. The only way you can get any real money is by proving damages. Since you don't make any money with the chart that we can tell, the likelihood of you suing them successfully is almost nil beyond having them remove the chart and it appears you asking them to do so was successful.

Of course the whole fair use thing can come into the argument as well. This is just my observation and my best friend's (mentioned above) as well, since the chart was posted on a public medium that is open to anyone and was strictly for informational purposes, the question is... Does Rob Sloyer own the actual information in the chart and how was the information misused? Our guess is not likely as that information was not created by you but rather collected by you. Just because you write something down does not make it yours necessarily. It is the sum of all parts that determines copyright (which does not require any registration, but just creation if the content itself actually qualifies but dependent upon the type of information). For example, I cannot copyright the phrase "M4 Carbine" any more than I can copyright stating that "company A made more profit than company B" which would of course be based on both company's annual reports which is information I do not own, but was given to freely and publicly. Make sense?

On the flip side, TWS did remove your authorship of the compiled data which could very well be a violation. It is also just shady to say the least. Nothing wrong really from wanting to show how your product stacks up agains those listed in the chart. But dude - give Rob the credit for 95% of that chart on TWS site.

The point here is at some level or another TWS is likely wrong. It appears to us that you sent some kind of email or contacted them in some way which resulted in the very first step of a IP violation. The chart has been removed.

As far as suing as so many have naively stated, I ask them to explain what it is they would be suing for? Money? What damage has occurred to the author? The only thing this TWS posting of the chart has done was to further the original intent of the author to spread the information. So while it was modified by adding to the original content, the original content was left intact. Again TWS should not have removed Rob's credit of compiling the original portions of the chart.

However, I would feel confident in posting something similar but give credit where credit is due with or without permission. Not saying I have or will, but just saying. Both my senior attorney friend's would argue that by Rob posting it on a forum for the explicit intent of public informational use, that it would likely fall into the public domain.

Pamela Samuelson has identified the values that are aplied to public domain works:

1. Building blocks for the creation of new knowledge, examples include data, facts, ideas, theories, and scientific principle.

2. Promoting education, through the spread of information, ideas, and scientific principles.

ALso given that the majority of the information in the chart as a whole is based on government work: i.e. the TDP. Government work is excluded from copyright and is under public domain.

Just some info for everyone. Always remember that if you do not want something copied, don't post it on the net. No matter how often or clearly you state you do not want it copied, it inevitably will be.

Other than all that I think the issue was handled well and

**Johnny Yuma** · 04-05-11, 18:43

Originally Posted by rob_s

Maybe I should re-orient the chart then. I'd hate to think of anyone buying anything from "the left".

That was a good point 4 yrs ago , and still valid....

**polydeuces** · 05-06-11, 18:13

Instead of posting a new chart, simply tell anyone thinking of purchasing an AR and is willing to educate themselves so they can save some $$ and/or get the best product possible for their hard earned $$ to go to M4carbine.net, put in some effort (read....

), and use the wealth of information easily available.

Regarding the hijacked chart - it appears some quality advise has already been given by those that deal w. copyrighted materials, but here is my $0.02:
The information you put forth was your intellectual property, and any unauthorized use could and should be pursued as copyright infringement.
Considering the amount of "evidence" considering authorship and intended use this should be a cakewalk, and any copyright lawyer will have a field-day here.
(as a commercial photographer I can attest to the perils of the internet- go by the rule that whatever gets posted on the internet WILL be copied and used without permission. So I don't.)
Good luck.

**SomeOtherGuy** · 05-27-11, 15:26

Re: TWS stealing the chart - I looked at their "mil-spec" description and noted it says "Tactical Weapons Solutions (TWS) is in the top 10 manufacturers in the county who use the greatest number of “MilSpec” parts in the assembly of their AR-15’s".

How many other AR makers are in Orange County, Florida?