"Interesting" grip advice...

[RancidSumo]

this was taught in a defensive pistol class usin g semi-autos primarily. A lot of 1911's but an equal number of double stacks. There was even a couple of revolvers in the mix.

[Gutshot John]

I just know that pushing and pulling on my hands is exhausting, and refuse to do it ever again.

You're not really supposed to do it full strength to the point of shaking, it's just enough pressure to engage the support-hand pinky. Really push pull is something of a misnomer, it's actually pushing against a locked support hand.

Strictly speaking you should be able to apply less force this way than trying to clamp down side to side to achieve the same result.

[Surf]

Any gaps in the grip anywhere creates a weakened grip. We try to minimize any gaps and create a true 360* grip pressure as best we can. Crossing thumbs lends to creating gaps. This was standard fare on revolvers which some of us older fellas carried but not so good of an idea on a pistol.

Yes recoil tends to be managed more with front to rear pressure, particularly the front downward pressure on the frontstrap during recoil as the muzzle wants to rise due to the pivot point of the primary hand. However the support hand also is a good aid IMO for the front to rear pressure but its main job is the side clamping which is also a great assist.

BTW the Taurus video above the shooter has way too much trigger finger.

[RancidSumo]

Found a pic of the thumb part at least.

[John_Wayne777]

The thumb over thumb thing is a revolver technique. On a revolver there is a good reason not to have your thumbs very far forward...namely the gap between the cylinder and the forcing cone. Hot gas escapes from that narrow gap at extremely high speed and it's generally a good idea to stay away from it.

Thumb over thumb in a Weaver stance is old school stuff that really hasn't been taught much in the last 10-15 years. There's a ton of verifiable data out there that shows modern techniques work better. There are still lots of old school types out there who believe that the alpha and omega of combat handgunning was Jeff Cooper...but that's more an article of faith than of fact.

[167]

Here is some info on the grip technique that I find works the best for me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvBM4fYfd3M

http://shooting-performance.com/76.html

[Surf]

Found a pic of the thumb part at least.

Pretty much when you first described the technique my first inclination is that the instructor or those whom they learned from came from the revolver era. I come from this time frame also and as I mention above and as JW explained in more detail that this is very much an old technique that came from the revolver grip. Being initially trained on a revolver, when I converted to a pistol and combat shooting my grip wanted to remain in the classic revolver grip. I had to force myself to continue to practice and use a good thumbs stacked and forward pistol style combat grip. It felt very unnatural for me and it took everything that I had not to scrap the modern combat pistol grip and revert back to my old grip. But without a doubt, those at the level that I wanted to get to all had the modern combat grip so I stuck with it. I can very much see how an instructor may not want to adapt or change their old style grip and indeed I often see it being used or even being taught to this day.

I will say that just because something or a technique is still out there and being taught does not mean that there isn't other techniques that work much better. This type of crossed thumbs grip is less than ideal and does not translate well to a good pistol type of grip. The crossed thumb inherently creates a pocket with the support hand giving less positive contact on the grip. While I may feel that the front to back part of the grip might do more for recoil management, the side clamping is just a big of a part in the picture.

This does not mean that you cannot be one heck of a shooter with that grip as I used to out shoot most of my peers with a crossed thumbs grip, but when I progressed into a higher level of shooting arena I learned a good combat grip and that made me into an even better shooter and I believe that the good combat grip alone took my shooting to another level.

Edit - I will also add that in the picture above there are much more severe crossed thumb grips than we see in this picture, however even that little of a crossed thumb grip will create a pocket or gap and will not give as much positive 360* contact.

[JSantoro]

You're not really supposed to do it full strength to the point of shaking,

I getcha, and it was more of an incrimental thing when I did it, not a full-out effort. Not unlike how weight on an armor vest doesn't bug me dearly as much as the extra effort it takes to make normal movements when I'm saddled with a lot of bulk from excessive coverage and pouches.

Over time, that takes more out of me, or at least makes the difference between making reasonable, sustained effort, versus being able to make perfect effort for only 15 minutes, say.

[Doru]

Don't shoot the messenger on this one, BUT....

I was told by someone more knowledgeable than myself that the 1911 was designed for a grip precisely like you describe.

I'm not defending the position or praising it's merits. Hell, I don't even shoot a 1911 if I can avoid it. Just thought that was worth posting, and curious if anyone else has heard the same.

Drew

[Surf]

Won't shoot the messenger, but to say that the 1911 was designed for a crossed thumb grip is a bit misleading. I say this because when the 1911 was designed the modern combat grip didn't exist and in those days the revolver was far more the norm and a one handed grip wasn't uncommon.

I will say however that a 1911 was more properly designed to have the shooter riding the top of the slide safety. Of course with a crossed thumb grip we can remove the safety and tuck the thumb as we establish our two handed grip on the 1911, but in reality a 1911 and its slide safety is a perfect fit for a natural thumb position for using the modern combat grip. Riding the slide safety places our thumb in a perfect position to stay in a thumbs forward, stacked position for the modern combat grip. So in reality, again John Moses Browning was ahead of his time with the design of the 1911. He already anticipated this combat grip way back when.