AAR - Jim Smith 3-Day Precision Rifle Class - Nov. 5-7, 2010 - NC

[KevinB]

Great Class (other than the near freezing rain on Saturday).

Jim is an awesome teacher.

Instruction, demonstrations and drills by the students.

Lessons learned

#1 buy a 16" gas gun (preferably KAC) for all those bolt gunners.

As far as accuracy went, it was clear that the 16" gas gun was as accurate as the bolt gun to the 636yd max we could fire on the range.

#2 buy a Leupold scope with Horus reticle

On some timed drills - my partner and I shot a drill in 1/4 of the time (including movement) on a multi distance range scenario as the bolt gun teams
I left my scope at 100 and simply held on the mil marks for windage and range.
My partner had to dial his mils, but that was cause he did not have a Leupold with Horus reticle

#3 Communication and familiarity with your partner.
The LE teams that came out as a sniper team had way better commication than those of us who showed up as singles and tried to get into a groove with a partner we just met.

#4 QD Bipod - is a must

#5 Bullet Flight rocks
I had the advantage of have a scope set to the gun and ammo combo (KAC SR-25 EMC, Leupold CQBSS w/ H58 and M118LR), but we shot in yards not meters, so I did ended up using BulletFLight dope to do my holds

More to follow.

[Boss Hogg]

KevinB, thanks for the info.

Did the class find any particular rounds to be surprisingly accurate (or inaccurate)? I've long been a fan of Prvi Partizan match ammo, as Black Hills, Federal Gold Medal, etc can be somewhat pricey for a class.

[Rob Haught]

Kevin is correct. The gas guns had a distinct advantage in speed in engaging multiple targets in the field fire exercises. I was shooting a stock Rem 700P with 3.5x10 LRT scope with Badger rings and base. Fed Gold Medal 168 Match ammo off a fixed Harris Bipod. This is our Dept. Issue rifle with Leopold 12x40 spotting scope and the new Ewing Tactical Tripod, which was great. Eagle cases, Packs and scope covers. My partner was using identical gear.

In most LE type engagements its just fine. The ability to load was severely hampered in stress drills compared to a detatchable mag system. I was impressed by the variety of ballistic programs available to the Iphone user and Palms. We were able to enter data once we had established a solid zero and back engineer a range card for our come ups and MOA's and shot the rest of the program off that data very well. The new reticles are very impressive but take some getting used to like all new things. There are some really neat things coming down the pike from the scope manufacturers and I will be updating my gear accordingly.

A 16" gas gun with the new scope with good ammo will certainly do anything needed out to 500 plus yds and Im going to look into going that route.

The class was a great opportunity to shake out our gear and my partner and I certainly improved our ability to work as a team. I would recommend this program to anyone who is interested in improving thier long gun skill sets.

Also an investment in foul weather gear is always a good thing! It was miserable on Sat morning for sure but we persevered. Some students didnt have good rain gear and suffered. Its hard to concentrate on your crosshair when ice water is running down your back.

Rob

[VA_Dinger]

Spartan Tactical LLC
www.spartantactical.com



Grey Group Training:
www.greygrouptraining.com



Knights Armament:
www.knightarmco.com

Awesome class, GGT took a bunch of photos and videos. We will be adding them to the AAR starting today.

[DMR]

Great class were I learned alot. Being one of two 5.56 shooters brought home the advantages of 7.62 when shooting at range. We had wind most days and with 5.56mm it was hard to keep up. The class was a great place to prove out the DMR configuration I thought I wanted. With enough trigger time and training I beleive my configuration will work, but it would be a damn site easier to do with one of Kevins 16" carbines and the new Leupold glass.

For the class I ran a Noveske SPR W/VIS, with a Cav Arms A1 stock, SSA trigger and a Nightforce 2.5x10 Compact with the Velocity reticle in a Bobro mount. I took the mount off the rifle to put it in the case on day one and had about a two moa shift down and left in my zero. While I got it dialed back in I never confirmed my zero, so I shot basicly a field zero for the rest of the class. Inside 450-500 I could do preety well, but at 500 and beyound I realy had to work at it on the steels.

[zushwa]

It was great to meet everyone. I appreciate everyone putting up with some last minute changes and the sparse range, but I think there is plenty of room for that place to grow.

I'm beating Eric with a stick to get some photos up. While he is working on that I'm going to pick up my 16 inch KAC rifle.

[zushwa]

Photos are being uploaded as I type. Paul, do your thing....

[Belmont31R]

KevinB, thanks for the info.

Did the class find any particular rounds to be surprisingly accurate (or inaccurate)? I've long been a fan of Prvi Partizan match ammo, as Black Hills, Federal Gold Medal, etc can be somewhat pricey for a class.

Hate to interrupt the thread but you should check out the new American Eagle (Federal) 168 OTM load. Im not sure what bullet it uses but its only $15/20, and shoots a little bit over MOA for me in my EMC in 10 round groups. Function has been 100% so far, and I just got a new case of it in today. I too don't like paying $25-30 a box so this is great for me. Try some, and see how it shoots for you. Its available online from a few places in the $15-17 range.


Edit: Also for some reason FGMM is on sale all over the place right now for 19.95 a box. If it shoots well for you now would be a good time to stock up since its normally closer to $30/20.

[KevinB]

I cheated and shot LC M118LR

I saw BH ammo -- some older ammo had some issued in a Mk11 suppressed and spit a few primers. I'm going to check in when I get back to Fl and see if it works in my SR-25 EMC. I know Jeff's new ammo is rocking in a suppressed gas gun, just not sure of the vintage of the stuff used at the course.

Federal GM did very well for Rob and his partner as well as the two Fl LE from St. John's county.

Rob and his partner also had the fastest pistol phase of the tower of doom.

Our lone FAL shooter was using 147gr Fed ball ammo -- he was hampered by both ammo, and platform, plus his IOR shit the bed on Sunday (piston guns are a butt load harder on optics that real gas guns - and even beleive it or not bolt guns).

I lent him a M110 SASS and Luepy scope and he bashed on.

Our other intrepid 5.56mm shooter was hampered by using M855 as his Larue Stealth gun was capable of a lot more with good ammo.



I was suprised as DMR had the only Cold Bore hit of us at the 650 (ish) on Sunday with his 5.56mm gun.
However for groups and other courses it was clear that the 500+ range was owned by the 7.62mm stuff.

The terrain was very undulating and the wind did funny stuff.

I was one of the guys who packed Florida style and was a cold and wet whiner by lunch on Sat.

[Blake]

Kevin,

You mention in your lessons learned to buy a #16 in. gas gun for use. Why is a 16 in gas gun recommended over a 18 or 20 inch gun?