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Thread: School Me On Brass Ejection Patern(s)

  1. #11
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    I've found that when the ejected rounds make it outside the upper it's good, when they don't it's bad.
    Anything other than that is voodoo science.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by JodyH View Post
    I've found that when the ejected rounds make it outside the upper it's good, when they don't it's bad.
    Anything other than that is voodoo science.
    JodyH, what are your qualifications for making this statement? are you a weapons designer, an armorer, or engineer? have you done research or is this just your opinion?

    I'd like to know because there are very definite tendencies of ARs that can be diagnosed by observing ejection patterns. Armalite states in their Technical Bulletin that their guns are designed with specific ejection patterns.

    if it's "voodoo science", I'd like to know why...
    Last edited by ra2bach; 11-16-10 at 09:19.
    never push a wrench...

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanpete View Post
    I've got a complete BCM upper that puts it about the same place, 1-2 o'clock, less than 6 feet. No worries.
    I agree, my SR15 doesn't malfunction and shoots very soft, so I don't see it as a problem. Brass will do funny things when it bounces off of a deflector. I think the brass deflection chart that people have become so fond of can be very misleading and cause some folks to worry unecessarily. It has some validity, but its not written in stone.

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  4. #14
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    All I can say from personal experience is that my ejection pattern completely changed, and became more consistent once I installed an H-buffer.

    Is that conclusive of anything scientific?

    In my mind it indicates that there are factors involved within the gun that can influence the pattern of ejection.

    Does it keep me up at night? Nah
    Mobocracy is alive and well in America.*
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  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mac5.56 View Post
    In my mind it indicates that there are factors involved within the gun that can influence the pattern of ejection.
    Of course there are.
    But trying to make the ejection pattern fit some kind of "gas chart" is junk science.
    Same rifle, same ammo, same magazines.
    Remove the extractor insert and o-ring.
    It'll eject differently than with insert and o-ring installed.
    The gas system didn't change at all.
    Where's that on your chart?
    Last edited by JodyH; 11-16-10 at 13:26.

  6. #16
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    Ejection patterns can be used as a tool to help diagnose an existent problem.

    Unfortunately, it seems that many use these patterns to determine IF they have a problem.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by buckshot1220 View Post
    Ejection patterns can be used as a tool to help diagnose an existent problem.

    Unfortunately, it seems that many use these patterns to determine IF they have a problem.
    you can. is there anything wrong with doing so? what negative things have you observed with people fine-tuning their guns?

    i've always said minutia was fun to argue, and doing to helps refine people's thinking on given topics. but man.. this thread, and the current carbine vs. mid-length thread, are perfect examples of the collective over-thinking we all seem to do when we get together and talk about anything of in-consequence.

    does it really ****in matter? does it really matter so much that people will call it "junk science" and "voodoo?" these are pretty junky posts, if you ask me. what does it contribute to the conversation? instead of posting a generic, unhelpful sentence or two, why not contribute to the debate? post up some facts, observations, theories, etc.

    it's a fact that ejection pattern generally correlates to ejection speed, and ejection speed correlates to action speed. we're talking about correlation here- correlation is relevant. NOBODY will ever argue that correlation is direct causation- it's not, thats why each word has it's own meaning.

    if somebody notices their brass ejecting at 1:30, and doesn't give a rip, because their weapon is vetted- that's totally fine. if somebody notices their weapon ejects at 1:30, and decides to experiment with buffer weights to try to bring the brass pattern toward the rear- and it works, and the weapon still works- that's also totally fine. why wouldn't it be?

    i think brass ejection and mid-length v carbine threads should be locked on sight, and the poster referred to the 50 existing, good threads on the topic. nothing new can be said about it.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by buckshot1220 View Post
    Ejection patterns can be used as a tool to help diagnose an existent problem.

    Unfortunately, it seems that many use these patterns to determine IF they have a problem.
    Quote Originally Posted by bkb0000 View Post
    you can. is there anything wrong with doing so? what negative things have you observed with people fine-tuning their guns?

    i've always said minutia was fun to argue, and doing to helps refine people's thinking on given topics. but man.. this thread, and the current carbine vs. mid-length thread, are perfect examples of the collective over-thinking we all seem to do when we get together and talk about anything of in-consequence.

    does it really ****in matter? does it really matter so much that people will call it "junk science" and "voodoo?" these are pretty junky posts, if you ask me. what does it contribute to the conversation? instead of posting a generic, unhelpful sentence or two, why not contribute to the debate? post up some facts, observations, theories, etc.

    it's a fact that ejection pattern generally correlates to ejection speed, and ejection speed correlates to action speed. we're talking about correlation here- correlation is relevant. NOBODY will ever argue that correlation is direct causation- it's not, thats why each word has it's own meaning.

    if somebody notices their brass ejecting at 1:30, and doesn't give a rip, because their weapon is vetted- that's totally fine. if somebody notices their weapon ejects at 1:30, and decides to experiment with buffer weights to try to bring the brass pattern toward the rear- and it works, and the weapon still works- that's also totally fine. why wouldn't it be?

    i think brass ejection and mid-length v carbine threads should be locked on sight, and the poster referred to the 50 existing, good threads on the topic. nothing new can be said about it.
    bkb0000- I'm kinda confused here. I think we are on the same page, or at least the same chapter

    My answer was short and simple because I figured that with plenty of other posts there was no sense in wasting space on the site. What I was trying to say in those two short sentences is that ejection patterns can be used as a diagnostic when the user is experiencing problems (related to cycling speed). Unfortunately, a decent amount of people have guns that run just fine, but don't necessarily eject into that ideal 3:00-4:30 position. For these people my comment was simply meant to denote that although your ejection might not look ideal, if the gun runs, then so be it.

    I own a few AR's including a BCM carbine that would indicate (via chart) that it is either undergassed OR has too heavy of a buffer/carrier weight. It has ejected like this since built some 5k rounds ago with no issues to speak of, needless to say I'm not changing anything.

  9. #19
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    bkb,

    Im sorry, I did not mean to poop in your Cheerios with this thread. I was not trying to diagnose a problem as both rifles seem to run just fine, I was just trying to get some knowledge as to what the difference between my two AR's meant.
    ..It was you to me who taught
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  10. #20
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    my rant came out at buckshot, but it really wasn't directed toward either of you.

    we could be discussing the-meaning-of-life, and you can be sure there will be a couple guys come up in here and tell us what the meaning of life is. get's real ****in old.

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