Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 43

Thread: After the Sunset: The Effects After the AWB.

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    4,240
    Feedback Score
    3 (100%)
    sunset my ass...

    still high noon here in Jersey
    ..It was you to me who taught
    In Jersey anythings' legal, as long as you don't get caught.

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Utah
    Posts
    8,685
    Feedback Score
    4 (100%)
    The gun of today is drastically different than the gun of 2004 before the ban ended.

    The sunsetting of the Fed AWB opened up new markets which have been exploited by folks like Magpul, VLTOR, BCM, DD, PWS, Troy, etc etc etc.

    Even if some of the innovations came about due to the war circumstances, for the most part, the military is not a big enough customer to make a successful business as an ongoing concern. At least to the extent that we see today with Magpul, VLTOR, DD, etc. These companies could never have existed and be where they are today without the sunsetting of the ban.
    • formerly known as "eguns-com"
    • M4Carbine required notice/disclaimer: I run eguns.com
    •eguns.com has not been actively promoted in a long time though I still do Dillon special
    orders, etc. and I have random left over inventory.
    •"eguns.com" domain name for sale (not the webstore). Serious enquiries only.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    P-town, VA
    Posts
    893
    Feedback Score
    2 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by C-grunt View Post
    I think the huge surge of interest in the AR stems a lot from the war. Lots of vets comming home and wanting something similar to what they had overseas.
    That, and civilians at home wanting the guns and gear they saw on the news.

    Shooting wars can prompt lots of innovation when it comes to small arms. We live in a time where prototyping is more rapid than ever and new products can be generated extremely quickly. Combine all of the above factors and you can see how the market for the AR and accessories for the AR has changed so much, so quickly.
    Principles matter.

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Utah
    Posts
    8,685
    Feedback Score
    4 (100%)
    I actually think the war had little to do with what we see today. Some of the specific products and stuff, sure. But the people I was shooting with before the war were into defensive shooting tactics and training, and none of them were military folks. The options were more limited then unless you had preban gun, which were expensive, but these same people, once the ban went away, pushed the envelope and ideas of defensive shooting. The sunset of the ban unleashed the creativity and resourcefulness of people who were held back by artificial legal limits previously.

    I think the military benefited more from the civilian people pushing the envelope more then the civilians benefitted from the military doing things with the platform.
    • formerly known as "eguns-com"
    • M4Carbine required notice/disclaimer: I run eguns.com
    •eguns.com has not been actively promoted in a long time though I still do Dillon special
    orders, etc. and I have random left over inventory.
    •"eguns.com" domain name for sale (not the webstore). Serious enquiries only.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN
    Posts
    747
    Feedback Score
    1 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by chadbag View Post

    I think the military benefited more from the civilian people pushing the envelope more then the civilians benefitted from the military doing things with the platform.
    Absolutely....

    Though the military had the budgets to advance expensive items like optics, many other items like slings, handguards, and back-up sights were bought by soldiers and taken with them to war.
    Daniel


    Never send a nail to do a screw's job.

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    AZ-Waging jihad against crappy AR's.
    Posts
    24,902
    Feedback Score
    104 (100%)
    Here's what I think. The M4 was really just going into adoption phase with the military when the AWB hit. Which is why we really didn't see any major stuff going on with the platform until the early 2000's.

    Once the ban sunsetted from what I saw the tactical market really seemed to pickup as did sales of firearms and magazines. I think the next major boost came from the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. We then start to see improvements in accessories and somewhat of a validation of the system which still had a bad wrap from Vietnam.

    I say that because during Desert Storm and Somalia the use of the M16A2/M4 was only used for a limited duration.

    The wars in Afghanistan and Iraq have been hard on the weapons and with the exception of the criticism about M855 ammunition it seems to have proven itself.



    Owner/Instructor at Semper Paratus Arms

    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SemperParatusArms/

    Semper Paratus Arms AR15 Armorer Course http://www.semperparatusarms.com/cou...-registration/

    M4C Misc. Training and Course Announcements- http://www.m4carbine.net/forumdisplay.php?f=141

    Master Armorer/R&D at SIONICS Weapon Systems- http://sionicsweaponsystems.com

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    32
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex V View Post
    sunset my ass...

    still high noon here in Jersey
    Same in California, New York and Massachusetts.

    For those in the free states -- remember to support those trapped behind enemy lines and simply not say I'm glad I don't live there.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    1,901
    Feedback Score
    14 (100%)
    I think a combination of factors were involved to open a proverbial floodgate after the AWB.

    Combat operations with the M-4 helped to show what worked, and what type of improvements were needed as far as accessories (Red Dot Optics, Lights Rails ect.).

    Many returning combat veterans liked having a gun they were familiar with.

    The general public was denied access to this type of AR unless it was pre-ban. This caused some desire (forbidden fruit, so to speak) and a mad rush to get one once new guns were available.

    The Law Enforcement community started to really embrace the AR platform, dubbing it a "Patrol Rifle". Where once the concept of LEO's armed with "evil looking assault rifles we're trying to ban" was politically unthinkable, LEO's with "Patrol Rifles" to offset gangs and terrorist threats isn't such a big deal politically. (I was partially involved in our Patrol Rifle program when it started in 2005.)

    Many people became concerned with their safety. The events following Hurricane Katrina in the gulf coast, the possibility of new terrorist attacks within CONUS, ect. led many people to want to obtain a carbine. If this type of gun is good enough for the Military and Law Enforcement, then that's what they wanted also.

    This combination of factors put more guns out there. More people shooting these guns discovered how shooter friendly they are, and how fun they are to shoot. More people shooting the more shooter friendly guns leads to more people looking to modify, change or "upgrade" their guns.

    All of these factors and more created a new market. The constant evolution as companies adapt to stay competitive and profitable while serving the needs of the Military, Law Enforcement, and the civilian market makes this the best of times for a shooter in my opinion.

    Look at what your options were in 1994 vs. 2004 vs. today.

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    South Carolina
    Posts
    531
    Feedback Score
    0
    Massive industry growth IMHO.

    Massive developmental growth as the manufacturers of military weapons.

    Honestly, the civilian market drives innovation at a much faster pace than the military. Because our demand and our willingness to adopt is honestly, in some cases as fast as the manufacturers can engineer and produce a product.

    I mean look at MG developments since the MG ban... honestly.

    We really haven't seen any.... real major developments in 15-20 years.

    And I say developments I mean new weapons platforms. New Rifles, new concepts.

    The technology has largely stagnated where it was in the mid-80's.

    I mean look at honestly the re-emergence of the Gas Piston Rifles in the last 5 years... (I say re-emergence because I mean look at the garand, the market was dominated by DI AR's). Look at newly released rifles (and some, honestly, just new companies) from FN, bushmaster, remington, ruger, sig, kac, lwrc, hk, dd, bcm, (even colt's now catching on) etc.

    Look at the amount of manufacturers getting involved in this niche market of large capacity intermediate ranged rifles. Beyond just re-engineered AR's.

    I'm an advocate of DI in the AR platform, but, the pace of accessories and their growth/change.

    IMHO, the Civilian market is what keeps most Weapon Manufacturer's in business.

    The military is in a unique situation where they're buying lots of weapons and accessories because we're in a time of war.

    But as soon as that ends... budget cuts, necessity for change, those things all go on the back burner, as a politicians cut costs, the market will go again on the shoulders of citizens largely, IMHO.

    Their purse strings will be tightened and they will use what they have.

    The civilian market is just much more nimble than any government run organization to adopt a new weapons system, and much more consistent demand, and honestly, it's a fairer market, IMHO.

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    The Greatest Planet in the Universe
    Posts
    3,094
    Feedback Score
    4 (100%)
    Don't overlook the geopolitical situation WITHIN the USA, too. From President Clinton's Administration up to now has been fraught with economic and political uncertainty. Those who perceive such things and have the disposable income have responded by purchasing multiple items, accessories, components and training. I, for one, would not be interested if it were not for the concerns of serious instability in the near future. Hurricanes Katrina and Gustav simply brought this to the forefront of many down here.

Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •