Sincere Question: What is a shotgun good for? (besides birds)

[Magsz]

Im surprised no one mentioned this.

Shotguns are affordable. They're cheaper than a pistol, a third of the cost of a good quality AR and are loved by gun stores around the world because of this.

If someone has a very strict budget and its either no gun or a shotgun for home defense purposes they're going to at least be able to arm themselves in one way or another.

Personally, i would save and buy an AR15 as it find it easier to operate than a shotgun and requires way less training for your average joe in order to be able to operate effectively.

Shotguns ARE decent tools as they offer ALOT of versatility but the training requirements are alot steeper than say a pistol or rifle.

[Silvanus]

I like the shotgun because it's so versatile. You can hunt everything from birds, small game to large game. Buckshot and slugs are very effective for SD/HD. In a LE/military role it's also nice to have the ability to use less lethal ammo, rubber shot for example. They can be cheap (paid 200€ for my Mossberg 500) and pump-action shotguns are usually very reliable. Opposed to what a lot of people seem to think a shotgun does take a bit of training to use effectively IMO, but you should train a lot with any gun you're planning to use for defense anyway, so I don't see that as a problem.

[WC 2-3]

Personally, i would save and buy an AR15 as it find it easier to operate than a shotgun and requires way less training for your average joe in order to be able to operate effectively.

Shotguns ARE decent tools as they offer ALOT of versatility but the training requirements are alot steeper than say a pistol or rifle.

Just curious why you say this? If you handed someone an AR or shotgun, it would take the same amount of time to be proficient. Or a pistol for that matter.

[556A2]

let's see....

1. I don't like the idea of a manually operated fighting weapon.

2. I don't like the idea of a fighting weapon being tube fed.

3. shotgun shells are expensive to train with.

1. They make Autoloading shotguns.

2. Saiga 12

3. A 100 shell box of promo birdshot costs about the same as 100 rounds of 9mm.

[Magsz]

Just curious why you say this? If you handed someone an AR or shotgun, it would take the same amount of time to be proficient. Or a pistol for that matter.

An AR shares a similar manual of arms to a pistol, lots of gross motor skills, high ammunition capacity, very low recoil (on the rifle) and VERY easy to operate for a beginner.

Once you start talking about RUNNING these guns and keeping them topped off and in the fight things change but for a beginner, someone that is just picking the gun up, slamming a big ass box magazine filled with 28 rounds into a hole and slamming the side of the receiver to drop the bolt (during a reload) is a hell of a lot easier than asking them to stick individual rounds into their gun while their hands are slippery, shaking and their heart is beating out of their chest.

I really do believe running a gun well and shooting efficiently is an art no matter what gun you're rocking but fighting with a shotgun at maximum efficiency takes a heck of a lot more concentration, training, knowledge and dedication towards learning how the gun runs and how it can be used.

This video is obviously not the greatest source material but its a reasonable example of the point im trying to make.

http://www.youtube.com/user/adcostev...41/1UauxacnFA4

[kal]

1. They make Autoloading shotguns.

2. Saiga 12

3. A 100 shell box of promo birdshot costs about the same as 100 rounds of 9mm

The saiga 12 meets requirements but still isn't appealing.

Also how are birdshot and buckshot loads different from one another in terms of recoil, and other factor that may affect training? Are there also pressure differences that may affect the reliability of a semi auto shotgun?

[jaxman7]

Shotguns do take a little more time to get the basics honed I think.

-First of all what load? Buck (what size pellets?) or slugs and what are the the potential consequences of shooting multiple rounds with one press of the trigger if others are around. Also managing the extra recoil. An AR has much less recoil which make subsequent shots more manageable therefore this makes you more effective on the target.

-Reloads. Start to run dry in a shotgun and you've got to load rounds in ONE at a time under stress. Not to mention if you aren't trained up enough and you didn't do a tactical reload and therefore one must load a round into the chamber close the bolt AND then begin feeding the tube. In a AR drop the mag insert a new one and hit the bolt release. Much simpler in my mind. Not to mention 28 rounds versus +/- 7 in a shotgun. Yes round for round 12 gauge is more effective in close quarters but there is not a magic one stopper round out there. In lieu of that, I'll take the AR.

-Malfunctions? Failure to fire fixes would be pretty the same speed. Double feeds? Ever had a round not extract on a shotgun and pull a round from the tube onto the elevator? Or loaded a round that didn't fully seat in the mag tube while a round was in the chamber? That makes a nice little rats nest. Double feeds can be hard to fix under stress with an AR but IMO simpler to fix than compared with a shotgun.

-Pumps guns are great IF you can run one under stress. I remember several years back I was hunting deer with my 870 and was using slugs. The first shot hit her in the shoulder but she hobbled off. I pumped the gun for the follow up hoping to finally bring her down. Click......I short stroked the gun and that was under stress but that was not life or death type of stress. The myth of the almighty pump gun needs to be put into perspective. Training, training, training.

Thats a few things I can think of and I am not a SME by any measurement but I believe ARs are much more intuitive, far more ergonomic, and with the right parts, overall more reliable. I am not dissing the shotgun in anyway. Heck I've had guns come and go but I've always had a 12 gauge 870 for the better part of my life. Magsz is right, for someone on a budget and needs a 'do all' firearm a shotgun has no equal if you factor out CCW. The caveat is when something is a 'do all' it becomes jack of all trades and master of none. Like I mentioned this is not a diss on the shotgun. Heck the majority of my recent posts have been on shotties b/c I absolutely love shooting them and I am trying to elevate my skill. In my opinion though if I am under a life and death situation my weapon of choice (for reasons listed above and others) if I have time and opportunity will be my AR underneath my bed. My opinion so the grain of salt factor is applied.

-Jax

Just curious why you say this? If you handed someone an AR or shotgun, it would take the same amount of time to be proficient. Or a pistol for that matter.

[arizona98tj]

The saiga 12 meets requirements but still isn't appealing.

Also how are birdshot and buckshot loads different from one another in terms of recoil, and other factor that may affect training? Are there also pressure differences that may affect the reliability of a semi auto shotgun?

I haven't noticed it very much....the velocity of the bird and buckshot I use are within 100 FPS of each other. The weight is close enough that I don't notice a difference. Having shot a couple thousand rounds of each through the same auto-loader for practice has me believing their isn't much difference. As for reliability, I find it no better nor no worse than any other long gun I have used. Without changing anything on my semi-auto shotgun, I can shoot bird, buck, and slugs. I don't see how it can get any easier than that.

As for a firearm not being appealing....well, there isn't much one can do about that. Have you ever ran a few magazines through a Saiga shotgun?

[kal]

As for a firearm not being appealing....well, there isn't much one can do about that. Have you ever ran a few magazines through a Saiga shotgun?

Never fired any shotgun. What I meant to say is that even though the saiga 12 meets requirements, it still isn't conceptually appealing. Consider that fact that I already own semi auto rifles that can be used for defensive purposes with the correct ammunition.

[BWT]

An AR shares a similar manual of arms to a pistol, lots of gross motor skills, high ammunition capacity, very low recoil (on the rifle) and VERY easy to operate for a beginner.

Once you start talking about RUNNING these guns and keeping them topped off and in the fight things change but for a beginner, someone that is just picking the gun up, slamming a big ass box magazine filled with 28 rounds into a hole and slamming the side of the receiver to drop the bolt (during a reload) is a hell of a lot easier than asking them to stick individual rounds into their gun while their hands are slippery, shaking and their heart is beating out of their chest.

I really do believe running a gun well and shooting efficiently is an art no matter what gun you're rocking but fighting with a shotgun at maximum efficiency takes a heck of a lot more concentration, training, knowledge and dedication towards learning how the gun runs and how it can be used.

This video is obviously not the greatest source material but its a reasonable example of the point im trying to make.

http://www.youtube.com/user/adcostev...41/1UauxacnFA4

Downside is an Aimpoint in a mount costs more than an Mossberg 590.

Personally I own an AR, rifles, handguns, etc. but I don't own a shotgun (my brother has two, so I figured if I ever needed to borrow one I would).

I think a rifle's better, but honestly, the cost of it is about 4 times that of the shotgun. The Base AR (quality AR) is I dunno $900-1100? (let's use what I have BCM Midlength), that's $1050 from BCM, $60~ for a rear Magpul MBUS, lets throw on an Aimpoint ML3 in a Larue mount, that's $540.

That's $1650, not counting transfer fees/shipping/tax, or a different pistol grip, butt stock, light, etc.

I could get a basic 590, rifle sights, 8-shot tube (ETA: Said 9-shot tube initially, meant 8 shot capacity) for $410 from Budsgunshop.com

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/a...50663&x=2&y=13

I hate to say it, but you're honestly looking at around 1/4th the price of an AR and 1/2 (depending on the pistol, if it's a glock, $100 or so less from most gun stores, M&P, depends on the model, configuration, etc) the price of a pistol.

No spare magazines need to be purchased either, etc.

I agree an Shotgun isn't ideal, but for people that need a weapon in their home, a shotgun will be more effective than a pistol any day of the week, IMHO, and can be had for much less. (ETA: Forgot to finish that sentence, it was late)

It also honestly, you can neglect that pump action shotgun, you don't need to buy quality magazines, it's not (ETA 2: Wow, I'm tired, I forgot the not) anywhere near as critical to clean/lubricate/maintain the gun (I mean that's the way with all manual firearms, bolt actions as well).

I'd take an AR over it, could get a cheaper AR, maybe RRA or Bushmaster, depending on the user, could get a C3 in a cheaper mount Aimpoint, but you're still going to be around $1200-1400 depending on the configuration.

By the way, I hate to say this as well, you can find buckshot or 00 buckshot or slugs at every walmart or gunstore. You're not going to find the best 5.56mm loadings for self-defense anywhere near that available.