Well I am probably going to get flamed for this post by all the keyboard commandos but here it goes. I am tired of all the mil spec and kool aid. There are many great rifles out there and anything that a civilian ( non issued military) gets is not mil-spec. I have seen many mil-spec items including weapons fail and break.Just because a manufacture does not produce weapons to mil-spec or mil-standard does not make it inferior product. I say stop worrying about what everyone else thinks and get what suits you. Those of you who think colt consumer products are mil-spec quite deluding yourselves. There are only four carbines and 4 m16's currently made by Colt Defense LLC that are Mil-spec. They are the following
RO901 : Flat top, Safe/Semi/Full Auto
RO905 : Flat top, Safe/Semi/Burst
RO701 : Fixed handle, Safe/Semi/Full Auto
RO705 : Fixed handle, Safe/Semi/Burst
for m16
RO977 : Flat top, Safe/Semi/Full Auto
RO979 : Flat top, Safe/Semi/Burst
RO777 : Fixed handle, Safe/Semi/Full Auto
RO779 : Fixed handle, Safe/Semi/Burst
for carbines.
Colt confirms this with this statement. "Colt Defense LLC is the sole source supplier of the M4 Carbine to the US military and the only manufacturer worldwide that meets or exceeds all US military specifications for the weapon"
Military Division ISO9001 FN Manufacturing, LLC is the other maker of the M16's that are true Mil-spec.
Now lets talk Mil-Spec. Here are some exerts from a few other websites.
Aramlites website.
The purpose of this Technical Note is to explain ArmaLite's conformance to MIL-R-63997, the MILSPEC for the M16A2 Rifle.
1. All claims from any manufacturer that they produce commercial rifles fully in conformance with the MILSPEC are false. Only M16A2 rifles produced by Colt or FNMI, and accepted by the Army’s Tank automotive and Armaments Command fully meet the requirements of the MILSPEC, and they are not legally producible for sale to the public. Even Colt brand commercial rifles are not in conformance with the drawing portion of the MILSPEC. In fact, ArmaLite’s rifles are closer to the government designs than Colt’s.
2. The M16A2 Rifle is manufactured in accordance with MILSPEC MIL-R-63997. A MILSPEC (military specification) describes a product. There are two key elements to a MILSPEC; a verbal description of what the product is and does, and a list of reference documents governing production of the product. In the case of the M16A2 Rifle, the key document is Drawing 9349000, which is a package of drawings setting forth the dimensions and tolerances for the M16A2 Rifle.
3. No commercial, semiautomatic rifle from ANY manufacturer meets both the verbal descriptions of the M16A2 and the technical drawing package.
4. ArmaLite does not claim that its rifles are made to the full provisions of MIL-R-63997. All ArmaLite/Eagle Arms rifles, however, are manufactured to the written requirements set forth by MIL-R-63997.
5. ArmaLite and Eagle Arms rifle parts feature excellent interchangeability with MILSPEC M16A1 and M16A2 parts. With the exception of parts designed for semiautomatic use only, no known incompatibilities exist.
CONCLUSION: Claims to production of fully MILSPEC rifles are untrue, and should be regarded with considerable suspicion.
"Speculating MIL-SPEC’s Meaning
By David R. Butcher
Predictably similar to so many other industry terms and phrases, MIL-SPEC and its numerous synonyms are amorphous. Tasking a targeted explanation is not a simple achievement. Though it lacks that one clear-cut definition -- for you, dear readers, we’ll try anyway.
MIL-SPEC, i.e., military specification, aka military standard (MIL-STD), is typically considered a United States Defense standard used to describe an item that can meet standardization objectives determined by the U.S. Department of Defense (DoD). Also referred to as MIL-STD, this defense standard aims to ensure products meet very specific requirements, commonality, reliability, compatibility with logistics systems, total cost of ownership (TCO) and similar defense-related objectives.
Additional users of defense standards include other non-defense government organizations, technical organizations and industry.
But what, exactly, are military specifications, and how are they different from military standards, and does “defense standard” encompass both terms or is it synonymous with both?
According to the Government Accountability Office (GAO) (pg. 4), “‘military specifications’ describe the physical and/or operational characteristics of a product, and ‘military standards’ detail the processes and materials to be used to make the product.” The standards, as further noted, can also describe how to manage the manufacturing and testing of a part. Further noted the GAO, some principal purposes for MIL-SPECs: to ensure interoperability between products; to provide products that can perform in extreme conditions; to protect against contractor fraud; and to promote greater opportunities for competition among contractors.
Defense standards originate from the necessary ensuring of military equipment’s proper performance, and from there they evolved. Despite the benefits of these standards’ compatibility, reliability and commonality, the proliferation of standards had a number of drawbacks. There were so many standards — nearly 30,000 by 1990, according to Wikipedia — there then came considered-unnecessary restrictions, increased cost to contractors, and an impediment of the incorporation of the latest technology. A memorandum in 1994 was issued by the then Secretary of Defense in response to growing criticism, effectively eliminating the use of most defense standards. (This has become known as the “Perry memo.”) As such, many defense standards were cancelled, and the DoD encouraged the use of industry standards in their place. (See previous article on industry standards.)
Earlier this year, however, the DoD partially reversed its previous proclamation, issuing a new memorandum that permits use of defense standards without obtaining a waiver; though it did not reinstate any cancelled defense standards.
A MIL-STD/MIL-SPEC/defense standard can also mean the actual documentation that lists, explains and altogether establishes the standard or specification itself, a compilation of prerequisites than an item must meet for DoD acceptance; whether for uniform engineering or technical requirements for processes, procedures, practices or methods.
There are considered five types of defense standards: manufacturing process; interface; design criteria; test method; and standard practices.
“According to a 2003 issue of Gateway, published by the Human Systems Information Analysis Center, the number of defense standards and specifications have been reduced from 45,500 to 28,300,” Wikipedia noted. “However, other sources noted that the number of standards just before the Perry memorandum was issued was less than 30,000, and that thousands have been cancelled since then. This may be due to differences in what is counted as a ‘military standard.’”
The DoD, with a generously in-depth explanation, defines “MILSPEC” as — wait for it — “military performance specification.” That's it."
In conclusion I would like everyone to think for themselves and handle the weapons they are considering, read true reviews, and don't just take what others have to say as gospel. Find out for yourself not just because someone says Mil-Spec. Don't get me wrong there is nothing wrong with Colt and they make fine firearms most of the time, but they are not the only manufactures that make fine weapons.
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Originally Posted by Shihan
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