Questions Concerning Handgun Grip and Reload Techniques

[SIMPLYDYNAMIC]

This picture may help on the thumbs....
As you can see from the X ray, the way handgun manufactures make the grips causes a forward and downward drive of the strong hand which causes the thumbs to rotate naturally more forward. Then the front strap of the weapon coinsides with the natural cup of the weak hand, again causing the weak hand thumb to naturaly drive forward. So by keeping the thumbs high fights against how the gun was designed to fit to the hand. If a guns grip was strait up a down then thumbs up would make sense.

Also by keeping thumbs forward vise up considerably increases the maximum 360 contact on the weapon system. Some people disagree with this.... well remember that Humans have opposing thumbs for a reason... Now emagine cutting off your thumbs at the first nuckel, now hold the gun and what do you have?...same as a thumbs high grip again the point being that thumbs do play a great part in the grip.


As for the Reloads...
Some instructors like to teach a more center of chest or "high ready pos" due to retention issuses. But in the world of Close Quarters Combat, speed is life. With that said a good gun fighter should train to be aware of his surroundings. If the threat is at a known distance and the shooter knows he needs speed more than retention than thats what his body will do... by loading as fast as he can---- (more torwards the line of sight method)

If the Threat is threating our retention then the gunfighter should also know retention techniques. If this happens and a threat is in your work space then you have to clear your workspace with other defensive measures inorder to gas the weapon back up.

Of course there are multiple situations one can find themselves in. thats why Critical incident senario based training is key! (if you can find it) I recommend Valhalla Traning Center for such training (and an awsome vacation area!)

[Robb Jensen]

This picture may help on the thumbs....
As you can see from the X ray, the way handgun manufactures make the grips causes a forward and downward drive of the strong hand which causes the thumbs to rotate naturally more forward. Then the front strap of the weapon coinsides with the natural cup of the weak hand, again causing the weak hand thumb to naturaly drive forward. So by keeping the thumbs high fights against how the gun was designed to fit to the hand. If a guns grip was strait up a down then thumbs up would make sense.

Also by keeping thumbs forward vise up considerably increases the maximum 360 contact on the weapon system. Some people disagree with this.... well remember that Humans have opposing thumbs for a reason... Now emagine cutting off your thumbs at the first nuckel, now hold the gun and what do you have?...same as a thumbs high grip again the point being that thumbs do play a great part in the grip.
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y65...namic/xray.jpg

As you know bro I 100% agree. Here's thumbs forward and down against the gun both two handed and weakhanded only (very little muzzle rise).

[SIMPLYDYNAMIC]

get pics man, I love that last one...its almost as if you have learned recoil control since the last time I shot with you! lol J/K man,

Heres some thumb down action:

[Gunfighter13]

I want to open a discussion on some of the most common techniques employed currently in defensive (and some competitive) handgunning. Specifically, the "two thumbs forward" grip and rotating the gun up and in during the reload.

Is there a particular advantage to the thumbs-forward grip versus say a thumbs-high grip? Also, when reloading, is anybody concerned that rotating the gun up close to the face may introduce control vulnerabilities?

Thanks in advance for your answers and experiences.

High-grip-thumbs-forward, is what I have used and taught. Easy to teach and has a marked difference in control of the gun that the student can see for himself/herself.

I like to reload by bringing the gun close, at the bottom of your view (just below eye level) and rotating the gun. You can still see the mag and gun to get that fast mag change and you do not have to look away from the threat. You have a clear view of both. Under stress the gun will automatically move up to stay in view.

As far as retention goes, if he’s that close you must have used the wrong tool to start with. You forgot to use the best tool that you have, your brain. I see cops do this all the time. Your at close range, you can touch them, and you want to draw like your in the old west movies. Wrong tool for the job and most likely a fatal one.

[SIMPLYDYNAMIC]

As far as retention goes, if he’s that close you must have used the wrong tool to start with. You forgot to use the best tool that you have, your brain. I see cops do this all the time. Your at close range, you can touch them, and you want to draw like your in the old west movies. Wrong tool for the job and most likely a fatal one.

what if your in a hostile crowd on a PSD mission and have a few motivated people attacking you?

[Gunfighter13]

what if your in a hostile crowd on a PSD mission and have a few motivated people attacking you?

Like I said: You forgot to use the best tool that you have, your brain.

From your own web site:

Good men and woman, just like yourself, have died simply
because they were not in the right mindset
for that particular time in their life. Don’t let
that be you! Train your mind, train your
body... It’s that Simple... but Dynamic!

[Gunfighter13]

get pics man, I love that last one...its almost as if you have learned recoil control since the last time I shot with you! lol J/K man,

Heres some thumb down action:

Looks like thumbs forward to me.

[SIMPLYDYNAMIC]

And I agree, I would hope my brain would keep me out of such situations but what I mean is that some situations can not be avoided, they could be mission dependant or you may be fighting for your childs life in a home invaasion and you have to hold your ground...therefore gunfighters should train in high stress senario based situations just in case it ever does happen. look at gordan and shughart...they didnt expect to be overran by an angree mob in the Mog but it happened...and they were well trained and very experienced.

And the thmbs down means not in the up position...so yes forward, I should have been more clear, thanks

[Gunfighter13]

And I agree, I would hope my brain would keep me out of such situations but what I mean is that some situations can not be avoided, they could be mission dependant or you may be fighting for your childs life in a home invaasion and you have to hold your ground...therefore gunfighters should train in high stress senario based situations just in case it ever does happen. look at gordan and shughart...they didnt expect to be overran by an angree mob in the Mog but it happened...and they were well trained and very experienced.

I agree. That being said, I would also hope that your brain and mine would know to change tactics as the scenario changes. That's the main point here do not become dependent on one thing. There are or should be other tools in the toolbox.