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Thread: What are your thoughts on this open carry video?

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abraxas View Post
    P.S.-- Also what causes "reasonable belief"to you is not the same as someone who is in law enforcement . They see very different from the rest of the public because they see a lot more than the rest of public of certain things
    Indeed.

    In Ornelas v. United States, even the Supreme Court couldn't define exactly what is "reasonable suspicion".

    Articulating precisely what "reasonable suspicion" and "probable cause" mean is not possible. They are commonsense, nontechnical conceptions that deal with "`the factual and practical considerations of everyday life on which reasonable and prudent men, not legal technicians, act.
    And
    The principal components of a determination of reasonable suspicion or probable cause will be the events which occurred leading up to the stop or search, and then the decision whether these historical facts, viewed from the standpoint of an objectively reasonable police officer amount to reasonable suspicion or to probable cause.
    The guy acted strange and aggressive, while armed. The stop was perfectly reasonable, even if somewhat inept.
    Last edited by Jake'sDad; 11-23-10 at 22:27.

  2. #52
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    The maker of the video was well within his rights.

    That said he's one of the biggest idiots I've seen in a while. To walk up on a traffic stop in progress with a visible weapon and a camera. I applaud the officer for handling it as well as he did. I don't think I'd have done as well.

    Of course the guy with the camera was stammering, he had just confronted a cop on a traffic stop while armed, and now was being confronted by two. I'd be a little nervous too.

    Were the officers misinformed of the law concerning the open carrying of a handgun? Obviously so. Do they need a refresher on legal updates? It would seem. While they may not be able to cite the statutes, they weren't far off from what is legal and accepted.

    If you wanna shoot a video on open carry, do not instigate a confrontation. Go about your normal day, and if you are confronted video that. He sought confrontation and got it. I think the officers issues were less about his open carry and more about his intentions in videoing a traffic stop that he was not a party of, from up close, while carrying a weapon. In fact, had he walked up with a video camera and a 8" Chef's Knife it probably would have gone even worse for him.

  3. #53
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    Idiot

    Applaud his effort, but his approach was horribly flawed. Open carry is legal, but is it really a good idea? Why tip your hat when you don't need to and can carry concealed? Free country and all that but, is this 1890's Wild West?

    Draw.....
    Never judge a man by his success, judge by how he deals with his failures!- L.E.C.

    Some People suck at being Human!- Me

    "To keep you is no gain, to destroy you is no loss."- Khmer Rouge

  4. #54
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    I'm not sure where some guys are coming up with probable cause to stop and question someone? Probable cause is what you need to arrest and charge a person.

    The cops contact with this idiot with a camera is under reasonable suspicion.

    Is it normal for an armed person to approach a police officer during a traffic stop? To the point the cop has to address the idiot.

    Let's see....mmmm, where else has police officers been approached by an armed subject who, also in this case, shows some obvious disdain towards police officers?

    Does Lakewood, WA ring a bell? That and quite a few other incidents where anti-g'vmt wack jobs approach and challenge cops IN THE MIDDLE OF A TRAFFIC STOP!

    This isn't a case of Mr. Innocent Guncarrier walking down the street and here comes the JBT g man to harass him.

    This guy approached the cops armed. This guy initiated the contact. This started the escalation.

    The cop had every legal authority to obtain ID. And to question him and detain him for a reasonable amount of time as to determine if he is in violation of law or as to his intent. After all, wasn't that exactly what he set out to do in the first place by antagonizing the situation?

    So what if he is legally carrying a gun. So he won't get charged. BFD. Having that gun certainly changes the dynamics of the contact.

    This guy is NOT a person who you'd want to represent responsible gun ownership and the argument regarding the second Amendment.
    What he showed was reckless disregard. Ask is this is how a reasonable person acts?

    I live in AZ with very liberal gun laws which I'm 100% in support. And I'm used to seeing and dealing with armed individuals. One thing it is if I initiated a contact with someone who I know is lawfully carrying. Another if the contact comes to me, armed, with a camera and wants to stir shit up. How do I know if this is yet another AH who want to light up a cop, or do a suicide by cop and get it so it can be shown on Youtube? And by just distracting me in my duties that could be considered with interfering.

    In my opinion Mr. IKnowMyRights acted suspicious enough to warrant the temporary stop and RID. He went out and sought attention and got it.

    The guy needs to go find himself a life.
    Last edited by i303; 11-24-10 at 02:16.

  5. #55
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    The guy making the video is a complete douche by trying to instigate an altercation with an LEO so he deserves whatever he gets during these encounters. Also, the LEO could have been a little smarter, smelled what was cooking and drove off without giving this asshat the pleasure of having an encounter.

  6. #56
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    Video

    Abraxas is 1000% on target.

    As a LEO the guy with the camera brought this upon himself. The cops acted professionally, and would have been justified in taking things further.

    Its called suspicious activity. They would be totally justified in detaining and and identifying the young man with the camera. This is called a 'Field Interview' (FI). They would not be justified in arresting and charging the guy with the camera. The guy with the camera is acting suspiciously, but not breaking a law. The purpose of the FI is to determine if you are, or are not a threat. It also provides information to follow should a similar but not so 'friendly' encounter occurs.

    EX: Two weeks later. The officer on the stop being set-up buy the subject in the car and the guy with the camera. The camera guy distracts while the guy in the car gets a gun and shoots the officer. Crazier things have happened. What if the camera guy isn't involved yet causes the same result? Either way the FI provides a 'lead' to be followed that could prove or disprove the involvement of the guy with the camera.

    STAY AWAY FROM THE SCENE! I emphasize this because you are distracting the officer. This puts the officer, any other involved civilians and yourself in danger. If you feel the need to videotape or monitor police activity (which is perfectly fine with me) do so in a way that the cops are unaware of your presence.
    I know of no safe depository of the ultimate powers of the society but the people themselves; and if we think them not enlightened enough to exercise their control with a wholesome discretion, the remedy is not to take it from them but to inform their discretion.

    Thomas Jefferson

  7. #57
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    The guy with the camera is a freaking idiot and is lucky that he wasn't drawn-down on. Why would you go out of your way to basically interfere with a traffic stop - one of the most stressful situation an LEO can participate it because it is one of the top killers.
    We must not believe the Evil One when he tells us that there is nothing we can do in the face of violence, injustice and sin. - Pope Francis I

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by RD62 View Post
    The maker of the video was well within his rights...
    So he is well within his rights to provide an unwelcome and possibly lethal distraction for the Officer in the performance of his lawful duties during a traffic stop - one of the most stressful and dangerous activity that WE (as a society) demand that he perform? Really?
    We must not believe the Evil One when he tells us that there is nothing we can do in the face of violence, injustice and sin. - Pope Francis I

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarlosDJackal View Post
    provide an unwelcome and possibly lethal distraction for the Officer
    Obviously the prudent course of action is to say well in the background and film, if the guy wants to make a film.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by 500grains View Post
    Obviously the prudent course of action is to say well in the background and film, if the guy wants to make a film.
    Exactly.

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