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Thread: Lightweight VS. maximum efficiency 11.5 build.

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polymerhead View Post
    I think the main issue is that initially the title pointed toward a lightweight build, and the UBR is not a relatively lightweight option when compared to several competing stocks. Now that the title is changed, many of the replies may not be as applicable.

    I changed the title back (on page 1) when TRIDENT82 mentioned it. I'm new to this SBR game, so I'm still "working" with what is out there to find the right fit. I don't mind spending money for parts because the more parts I get the more rifle's I can build.

    But looking at those PRS stocks that the Noveske guys use, wowza, that's a big stock. What's even more amazing is they're running 3 gun with those suckers! Kind of makes the stock debate a moot point, NEXT.
    Last edited by SW-Shooter; 12-07-10 at 00:47.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by SW-Shooter View Post
    But looking at those PRS stocks that the Noveske guys use, wowza, that's a big stock. What's even more amazing is they're running 3 gun with those suckers! Kind of makes the stock debate a moot point, NEXT.
    Exactly, this whole light weight shit is way overblown. Run the stock that feels the best when you shoulder the carbine.

    I like the UBR on my shorty, it balances right at the magwell and feels very solid.



    Cameron

  3. #33
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    Funny thing is about this whole 9oz. is that the crowd who feels its excessive very often ultimately run an equally or close to equal weighted stock as the UBR...how can this be???

    Being super prepared with a full 6pk of C123's loaded in the Sopmod.....

    Wanting to upgrade a CTR so that it ultimately can be short but similar to a UBR in that it serves as a better precision stock by adding prob. a 1/2 lb to it once you get the new RISR and perhaps the monopod attachment from Larue.

    Emod I am less familar with but I know some of you have figured out how to pack those survival kits in the Emod's diff. storage compartments and thereby adding more overall weight to the stock.

    I honestly had a guy tell me that the UBR was just to heavy for him and a little later a conversation comes up where he pointed out how he vastly improves the handling of his rifle by adding a full 6 batteries to the sopmod sleeves to achieve more balance Un-freaking-real
    Last edited by ALCOAR; 12-07-10 at 02:23.

  4. #34
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    Six batteries is a little much.
    "Real men have always needed to know what time it is so they are at the airfield on time, pumping rounds into savages at the right time, etc. Being able to see such in the dark while light weights were comfy in bed without using a light required luminous material." -Originally Posted by ramairthree

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cameron View Post
    It is interesting how a simple item like a stock can be so polarizing. I just don't get all the emotionalizing. It is simply a different stock, some weigh a little more, some weigh a little less... I suppose I don't understand the myopic, "If you don't chose the same gear as me you are probably a bad shooter!" mentality.
    I don't either. Who is posting this way? Besides you, I mean.

    Go back and re-read the thread without your myopia glasses and you'll find that I simply stated that I preferred a lighter stock on the gun and found no advantage to a heavier, more expensive, more complex, product. Cue the inevitable gnashing and wailing of teeth. Much like the suppressor thread, ironically.

    Rob, it would be a mistake to assume that just because the guys you shoot with can't hit the broad side of a barn it is because they have a different stock than you prefer.
    It would be a mistake, and an obvious red herring, to assume that this is what I meant. You're taking the statement out of context and you know it.

    The statement was made that the UBR was steak and other stocks are kibble. I was simply pointing out that most of the people I come across in the AR world wouldn't know steak from dogshit, as evidenced by the inverse relationship of the cost of their "steak" to their ability to hit a target in any reasonable amount of time.

    What the Noveske 3-gun shooting team has no bearing on what I want, or need. But you know this already as well.

  6. #36
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    I had my 11.5" set up with M.I. quad rail, VFG, Light, Aimpoint, BUIS and a MOE stock.
    I stripped it all off and returned it to an A2 with everything else standard. Now it's the lite weight carbine it's supposed to be.
    But I do have my old work rifle in a 10.5" that has all the entry goodies on it.
    Independent Field Testing/R & D

    Better to die for something than live for nothing

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by SW-Shooter View Post
    Kind of makes the stock debate a moot point, NEXT.
    Not really, even though it was posted with the intention of forcing that incorrect conclusion.

    3-gun stages are measured in seconds, and won by 10ths of seconds. Weight, in those cases, can in fact be your friend. But then, none of them are shooting SBRs with those heavy stocks either, which makes the inclusion of their gear in the discussion even more off-topic.
    Last edited by rob_s; 12-07-10 at 10:31.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cameron View Post
    Run the stock that feels the best when you shoulder the carbine.
    I do agree with this, although I think this "feel" thing gets overblown, and I would say "run the stock that gets you the results you want when you're shooting the carbine". I have seen over and over again people going by "feel" which is wholly irrelevant to rounds downrange. Some shooters do have the experience to know what they are looking for, put a new piece of gear on a gun or on their body, and know instantly "ah ha! This is it!" but for new shooters that's not only unlikely but impossible.

    If, through the course of running the gun, someone finds that the front end of the gun seems too heavy then yes, the UBR is a great way to balance that out provided that you're not running accessories on that front end that offer you no other advantage. If you have what you need/like on the front end and a lighter stock on the rear end, the UBR may well balance out that additional weight.

    People often point to Pat Rogers' use of the UBR on some of his SBRs in these arguments (a more germane example than the Noveske 3-gun team IMHO, not to take away from those guys) but what they often miss is that he has a light, laser, VFG, etc. all mounted out there. If you don't want/need those things or can find lighter alternatives then the UBR may not be necessary and the same balance point can be had WITHOUT the extra weight. Extra weight, even an extra 1 oz., without gaining something for it is stupid.

  9. #39
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    It's obvious to this guy that I'm out of my league here. I have received some very good information from some of the best and brightest in the BR community. I appreciate all of the input and henceforth will pry my butt off of the couch and spend some precious ammo ensuring I put the right parts for me and not what is the hip thing at that moment.

    Thank you all.

  10. #40
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    My bang-stickk epiphany for the year has been that lighter weight up front increases my effectiveness a lot more than a 'more accurate' heavy barrel, or the majority of accessories out there.

    Dead weight is still dead weight, but there are cases where we here on the interweb focuses too much on lowering a weight figure, and less on keeping the rifle an effective tool (while utilizing the minimal weight to enhance function).

    I really like light AR's, but I still want a flashlight and red dot because they're worth the added weight and bulk to me. The relative simplicity of these rifles compared to others helps me justify using better, lighter parts too.
    عندما تصبح الأسلحة محظورة, قد يملكون حظرون عندهم فقط
    کله چی سلاح منع شوی دی، یوازي غلوونکۍ یی به درلود
    Semper Fi
    "Being able to do the basics, on demand, takes practice. " - Sinister

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