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Thread: What kind of accuracy should I be *ahem* shooting for?

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    What kind of accuracy should I be *ahem* shooting for?

    I mean, I know the answer is "as accurate as I possibly can," but I want to know what that looks like at 100 yds. If I'm shooting a 16" carbine at 100 yds, what kind of groups should I expect with a RDS? I'm not expecting the bullets to touch like my bolt action 308, but about how tight out of 30 should I be looking for? Thanks.

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    How slow or fast are you shooting? Are you prone, or standing? How much experience do you have shooting?

    I am not as talented nor experienced as many of the people on this forum, but I strive for under 2MOA prone at 100, and 3 MOA standing at 100. Every time I shoot though I get better and better. I have gotten Sub MOA benched with a red dot at 100.
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    I have only a few years experience shooting. I can make rounds touch with my bolt action at 100 paces, (around 250 ft, never bothered to really measured,) if that gives any indication of my shooting ability. I'm speaking of benched slow fire from an AR. Mostly I'm trying to ascertain how much of what I feel to be inaccuracy is me and how much is my gun. I always have assumed it to be me but after some recent groups with the bolt action I'm beginning to doubt my trusty AR a bit. A little reading tells me that a MOA is an inch at 100 yards... that means I should be able to put them all in 2" group at 100 yards. I guess I'll strive for that. After finals I'll make a little test for myself and my rifle. Thank you very much for your advice.

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    I shoot *ahem again* for fist sized groups at 50 yards, out to a 12"x12" steel plate at 225 yards with a CompM2.

    This is in the standing, keeping the rifle in the shoulder, but taking just enough time to get a proper sight picture before gently squeezing the trigger.

    I never shoot paper at 100 yards so I don't know, but I would imagine it'd be bigger than 2" with a 4" dot.

    For what its worth, when I used to have an eotech I was shooting 5 shot groups just shy of 2" at 100 yards from the bench.
    Last edited by Eurodriver; 12-05-10 at 20:22.

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    Im new to ar's so I strive to shoot inside of 3" at 100 with an rds from prone. I will be taking a lot of training classes next year to improve on this though!

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    What kind of ammo are you using? If you're using cheap-o training ammo, XM193, or similar, I'd be happy with 4MOA.

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    You have gotten sub-MOA groups with an unmagnified RDS. I find that ridiculous. How small is the reticle???? 2 or 4 MOA. That would therefore be impossible to acheive a sub-MOA group.

    I can shoot a 2 - 2.5 MOA group from the prone position using irons. With an magnified optic I can shoot sub-MOA all day from a benchrest (Rem 700 PSS). Sub-MOA groups are impossible unless absolutely supported. Involuntary muscle movements make it impossible.

    You can expect to shoot 6 MOA standing and 4 MOA from supported prone at 100 yards. That would be from a very competent shooter. Also depends on your eyes and how concentric the dot appears.

    An RDS is a combat optic and not made for precision shooting. Go with a magnified optic with a cross-hair reticle for increased precision.
    Last edited by hammonje; 12-05-10 at 20:26.

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    The weekend before last I checked my 100yd zero on 4 carbines shooting Federal bulk pack 55gr FMJ, and Lake City M193. Slow fire off a front bag with a match trigger.

    10.5" EOTech 1.25" groups

    14.5" Aimpoint T1 1.5" groups

    16" Back Up Irons 1.75" groups

    18" 14 power scope 0.75" groups

    This weekend I was back re-zeroing the 10.5" as I changed the muzzle device and shot a couple of sub MOA groups with the EOTech and Fed 55gr. That SBR is a shooter!!

    Cameron
    Last edited by Cameron; 12-13-10 at 18:21.

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    The best I've ever shot prone with a CompM3 (2 MOA dot) using xm193 was about 4 1/2 MOA.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by hammonje View Post
    You have gotten sub-MOA groups with an unmagnified RDS. I find that ridiculous. How small is the reticle???? 2 or 4 MOA. That would therefore be impossible to acheive a sub-MOA group.

    Actually MOLON did a nice exercise shooting ridiculously small groups with an Aimpoint. The threads title was "Precision Shooting With an Aimpoint: Range Report" I believe he was shooting 10 shot groups less than 1.15" extreme spread.

    It really doesn't matter what the optic is it is a test of holding the optic consistently in the same place.

    Found it.

    Originally Posted By Molon:
    Precision Shooting With an Aimpoint: Range Report

    First and foremost, the Aimpoint red dot sight is a combat sight. Its primary purpose is for use in situations that require “reflexive shooting” at multiple targets, at close ranges. The Aimpoint excels in this type of shooting because it easily allows you to shoot with both eyes open and to focus on the target while shooting. All of my self-defense AR-15s have Aimpoints mounted on them. However, should the need arise (for example, making a head-shot on an aggressor at 100 yards who has most of his body behind hard cover) the Aimpoint sight is certainly up to the task of making precision shots.

    There are those who claim that when using an Aimpoint sight with a four minute of angle dot, that it is not possible to shoot groups that are smaller than four minutes of angle in extreme spread. One such person has gone so far as to claim that groups shot from 100 yards using an Aimpoint with a 4 MOA dot will be “greater than 4 inches. Usually much greater.” As we shall soon see, such statements are completely false.

    To determine the level of precision obtainable when using an Aimpoint sight with a 4 MOA dot, I mounted an Aimpoint ML2 with a 4 MOA dot on one of my Krieger barreled AR-15s. This AR-15 is easily capable of producing consistent sub-MOA 10-shot groups at 100 yards when using a high magnification scope. Shooting with the Aimpoint sight was done from a bench-rest at a distance of 100 yards using NRA 200 yard High Power type targets that I scaled-down for 100 yards. (The aiming black is approximately the same width as a human head.) Sighting was done using the whole dot centered on the bullseye. Three 10-shot groups were fired in a row for evaluation.

    Zeroing the Aimpoint sight at 100 yards was conducted during a down-pour with 20-25 mph winds. The first two 10-shot groups were also fired under these conditions. The first 10-shot group had an extreme spread of 1.41”.

    With another couple clicks of windage and elevation adjustment, the second 10-shot group had all shots going into the X-ring. The extreme spread for this group was 1.19”.

    Just as quickly as the down-pour had started, the rain stopped, the winds died down and the sun began shining again. I posted a new and dry target on the 100 yard backer and continued shooting. The third 10-shot group had an extreme spread of 1.14”. The average extreme spread for all three of the 10-shot groups was 1.25”.
    Cameron
    Last edited by Cameron; 12-05-10 at 21:40.

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