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Thread: What kind of accuracy should I be *ahem* shooting for?

  1. #11
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    With a proper target such as a bull that subtends a little larger than the red dot, accuracy can be the same or very close to the potential of the rifle/ammo (and shooter's) capabilities with a magnified optic.

    However, a poor target choice that does not allow viewing the outer edges of the target will get you into minute of pie plate range.

    As an example - 2" at 100 Yds (even with a 4 MOA dot) is possible given the previously mentioned caveats.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by hammonje View Post
    You have gotten sub-MOA groups with an unmagnified RDS. I find that ridiculous. How small is the reticle???? 2 or 4 MOA. That would therefore be impossible to acheive a sub-MOA group.

    I can shoot a 2 - 2.5 MOA group from the prone position using irons. With an magnified optic I can shoot sub-MOA all day from a benchrest (Rem 700 PSS). Sub-MOA groups are impossible unless absolutely supported. Involuntary muscle movements make it impossible.

    You can expect to shoot 6 MOA standing and 4 MOA from supported prone at 100 yards. That would be from a very competent shooter. Also depends on your eyes and how concentric the dot appears.

    An RDS is a combat optic and not made for precision shooting. Go with a magnified optic with a cross-hair reticle for increased precision.
    I've shot sub MOA groups with a 4moa dot, if you have a well defined target (like a black dot on white paper) and the power isn't on too high you can make the target out within the dot. It's situational obviously, but on most days it's not too much of a challenge if your rifle/ammo is capable.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by hammonje View Post
    You have gotten sub-MOA groups with an unmagnified RDS. I find that ridiculous. How small is the reticle???? 2 or 4 MOA. That would therefore be impossible to acheive a sub-MOA group.

    I can shoot a 2 - 2.5 MOA group from the prone position using irons. With an magnified optic I can shoot sub-MOA all day from a benchrest (Rem 700 PSS). Sub-MOA groups are impossible unless absolutely supported. Involuntary muscle movements make it impossible.

    You can expect to shoot 6 MOA standing and 4 MOA from supported prone at 100 yards. That would be from a very competent shooter. Also depends on your eyes and how concentric the dot appears.

    An RDS is a combat optic and not made for precision shooting. Go with a magnified optic with a cross-hair reticle for increased precision.
    Some interesting reading here on that very subject.

    https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=34995
    Last edited by Redhat; 12-05-10 at 20:58.

  4. #14
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    If you're hitting a tennis ball from prone, softball from kneeling, and basketball from standing, you're golden. From a prone supported position, shooting under 2MOA with good ammo is a very reasonable goal even through an RDS.

    Considering what the Aimpoint is really designed for, if you can hit what you're aiming for, start looking at balancing accuracy and timing so see how quickly you can consistently make hits.
    عندما تصبح الأسلحة محظورة, قد يملكون حظرون عندهم فقط
    کله چی سلاح منع شوی دی، یوازي غلوونکۍ یی به درلود
    Semper Fi
    "Being able to do the basics, on demand, takes practice. " - Sinister

  5. #15
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    One thing that will help when using red dots is a bulls-eye that is slightly larger than your dot, so you can see the bulls-eye around your dot. This will have no bearing on your group size.
    Ammunition is a major factor. All guns can be particular about which loads they shoot well.
    The following are the average of several 5 shot groups measured with a dial caliper, from a bench at 100 yards. (Every time I shoot from a bench, I record my groups and keep a running record of how various loads perform)
    Rock River/Eotech 512
    American Eagle 55g FMJ....1.31
    Fed GMM 69g BTHP........1.09

    LMT/Aimpoint ML2
    American Eagle 55g FMJ....2.39
    Fed GMM 69g BTHP.........1.80
    Fiocchi 62g FMJ..................3.9

    I know you asked about groups with RDS but here’s an example of extreme difference in a gun’s ammo preference.

    BCM 16" free floated upper with Spikes lower. Weaver 1.5-6 using 6X
    American Eagle 55g FMJ....3.6
    Fiocchi 62g FMJ..................4.2
    Hornady Practice 55g FMJ...1.01
    Fed GMM 69g BTHP..........0.69

    Hope this helps.

  6. #16
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    shooting

    I like to shoot a new rifle from a bench to see what it will do or for trying out handloads.
    But I believe to many people shoot from a bench to much and neglect being able to shoot free hand, setting on the ground or however.

    As far as accuracy goes, I'm happy to be able to hit man size targets up on the hill in the woods in my back yard at 200 yards with iron sights. My eyes are getting old but still work pretty good.

  7. #17
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    If you are trying to evalulate how accurate you are shooting, you need to know the mechanical limits of the rifle/ammo combination.

    I would try to borrow or otherwise use a rifle rest w/ sandbags or lead shot. Fire some five to ten rounds groups and see how it comes out.

    Probably the most important is your ammo barrel combination.

    There is absoutley no reason you cannot shot ragged holes with an aimpoint.

  8. #18
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    I was taught MOBG at ranges from point blank out to as far as neccessary to put down the threat...If your trying to punch a bunch of little holes in a piece of paper then I guess as close together as you can get 'em...
    “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” W. Churchill

  9. #19
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    To say that it is impossible to shoot sub moa because of the size of the dot is ignorant! The fact that the dot is 2 or 4 or 25 moa does not affect where the rounds land. I am a brand new shooter and if I go prone and take my time I can shoot 3moa with a 2moa rds. That type of shooting is not that hard to accomplish!

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockkid88 View Post
    To say that it is impossible to shoot sub moa because of the size of the dot is ignorant! The fact that the dot is 2 or 4 or 25 moa does not affect where the rounds land. I am a brand new shooter and if I go prone and take my time I can shoot 3moa with a 2moa rds. That type of shooting is not that hard to accomplish!

    How does it not???? You have to be able to assume an identical sight alignment to get a consistent group. We have no way to verify these targets. I give the individuals the benefit of the doubt, but I have my doubts indeed.

    Do you assume the center of the dot is the POI??? If you visualize a perfect concentric dot, which is rare with a RDS, than perhaps it is possible. Even a 2 MOA RDS covers too much of the target.

    Too many ifs...

    If you turn the brightness down???
    If you have the right target???
    If you shoot from a benchrest???
    If you have the right ammo???

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