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Thread: Form 1 (SBR) Engraving Requirements

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by TriumphRat675 View Post
    PITA. BATFE has a specific form you can fill out to temporarily move the SBR from one state to another. I would only do this if I was taking an SBR from one SBR friendly state (Texas) to an adjoining state (Oklahoma). Every state has its own SBR laws, and you'll be travelling over or through a bunch of them to get from PA to NC. That's a lot of different jurisdictions you need to worry about. You'll have to do a lot of research and possibly contact the BATFE to figure out the proper process for doing what you want to do. Why bother? Just take a regular rifle.
    Why not just ship the short barreled upper to your destination and travel with the lower only (or with a non-NFA upper). Based on the logic that it is only a SBR if it is configured that way then this would avoid any problems.

    Am I correct in my reasoning?

    Buckaroo
    "It is better to be a Warrior in a Garden than a Gardner in a War"
    Let's use the First Amendment to protect the Second so we can avoid using the Second to protect the First.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buckaroo View Post
    Why not just ship the short barreled upper to your destination and travel with the lower only (or with a non-NFA upper). Based on the logic that it is only a SBR if it is configured that way then this would avoid any problems.

    Am I correct in my reasoning?

    Buckaroo
    No. I would not do that. What you are doing is taking an SBR in one state and moving its component parts by various means into another state for reassembly. That constitutes moving the SBR in interstate commerce without written permission of the BATFE, and that is a bad thing. Temporarily taking the upper off of the lower does not necessarily mean that the SBR is not an SBR anymore. This is simply an area we don't have much guidance on. For more interstate transit information, look at the ATF opinion letter in this thread.

    There is always a problem applying logic to laws and regulations that were poorly drafted by non-experts, somewhat internally inconsistent, not written with modern technology in mind, open to interpretation by cops, federal agent, or prosecutors in the absence of guiding case law, and continuously changed by regulatory fiat. In that situation, thinking up creative ways to achieve goals of dubious value is just wasting time at best and can get you in big, big trouble at worst. Unless you want to be a test case, discretion is the better part of valor here.

  3. #33
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    You can't move or have the SBR in another state without an approved ATF Form 5320.20
    http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-5320-20.pdf

    For the SCAR you can mark the upper or the barrel.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by TriumphRat675 View Post
    No. I would not do that. What you are doing is taking an SBR in one state and moving its component parts by various means into another state for reassembly. That constitutes moving the SBR in interstate commerce without written permission of the BATFE, and that is a bad thing. Temporarily taking the upper off of the lower does not necessarily mean that the SBR is not an SBR anymore. This is simply an area we don't have much guidance on. For more interstate transit information, look at the ATF opinion letter in this thread.

    There is always a problem applying logic to laws and regulations that were poorly drafted by non-experts, somewhat internally inconsistent, not written with modern technology in mind, open to interpretation by cops, federal agent, or prosecutors in the absence of guiding case law, and continuously changed by regulatory fiat. In that situation, thinking up creative ways to achieve goals of dubious value is just wasting time at best and can get you in big, big trouble at worst. Unless you want to be a test case, discretion is the better part of valor here.
    Sorry, I did not mean that one could fail to inform the BATFE only that shipping the upper would avoid transporting it through states that might be a problem.

    Buckaroo
    "It is better to be a Warrior in a Garden than a Gardner in a War"
    Let's use the First Amendment to protect the Second so we can avoid using the Second to protect the First.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by TriumphRat675 View Post
    No. I would not do that. What you are doing is taking an SBR in one state and moving its component parts by various means into another state for reassembly. That constitutes moving the SBR in interstate commerce without written permission of the BATFE, and that is a bad thing. Temporarily taking the upper off of the lower does not necessarily mean that the SBR is not an SBR anymore. This is simply an area we don't have much guidance on. For more interstate transit information, look at the ATF opinion letter in this thread.

    There is always a problem applying logic to laws and regulations that were poorly drafted by non-experts, somewhat internally inconsistent, not written with modern technology in mind, open to interpretation by cops, federal agent, or prosecutors in the absence of guiding case law, and continuously changed by regulatory fiat. In that situation, thinking up creative ways to achieve goals of dubious value is just wasting time at best and can get you in big, big trouble at worst. Unless you want to be a test case, discretion is the better part of valor here.
    He would be good to go with the travel letter. It sounded like he wanted to avoid driving from state to state with an SBR in his vehicle.
    Last edited by usmcvet; 12-20-10 at 19:07. Reason: looks like we were typing at the same time.
    "Real men have always needed to know what time it is so they are at the airfield on time, pumping rounds into savages at the right time, etc. Being able to see such in the dark while light weights were comfy in bed without using a light required luminous material." -Originally Posted by ramairthree

  6. #36
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    Gotcha - sorry for the misread. I don't know the answer to your question. If the ATF signed off on the move you still have to deal with state and local laws which may have definitions of "firearm" or "short barrelled rifle" that are different than either the GCA or NFA. Still a PITA.

    I would much rather just take a non-NFA rifle with me if I went to a class out of state.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by usmcvet View Post
    AC

    I know DD and Noveske will take one of their regular lowers back and add it to their books as an SBR if you buy the SBR upper from them. If you could get that done you wouldn't have to engrave your lower.
    I just recived a response from LMT they will not take one of their rifle lowers backand SBR it. It is nice to know Noveske and DD will.
    "Real men have always needed to know what time it is so they are at the airfield on time, pumping rounds into savages at the right time, etc. Being able to see such in the dark while light weights were comfy in bed without using a light required luminous material." -Originally Posted by ramairthree

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by usmcvet View Post
    I just recived a response from LMT they will not take one of their rifle lowers backand SBR it. It is nice to know Noveske and DD will.
    I'm not sure that NRW and DD really want this to be common knowledge in the sense that providing the service is kind of a distraction, and surely not a primary focus of either business, but both companies have proven flexible and accomodating in the past.

    I believe there are still some restrictions in play about who is physically "building up" the receiver to a given degree or percentage of completion (80% comes to mind) though, so the best way to do this is to buy or send them one of their receivers and pay to have it completed -- or mostly completed -- for reentry onto their books as an NFA item. Again, this is a by-exception process, but one worth knowing about for customers of those particular companies ... like the two of us.

    AC

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by usmcvet View Post
    I just recived a response from LMT they will not take one of their rifle lowers backand SBR it. It is nice to know Noveske and DD will.
    And that's my cunning plan. Buy a 12.5" upper with a Switchblock and a lower at the same time from John Noveske. The slight additional wait time is worth it for their product.

  10. #40
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    I agree it is probably a PITA to a certain degree. It came up in a few previous threads because of the questions about selling a stripped lower or complete lower as a factoy registered SBR.

    I bought a complete lower this way and was interested in buying a stripped DD SBR lower to just put away for now. It turns out the deal never happened. This is when I reached out to DD and found out they would do it if I bought an SBR upper from them and they attached it to their lower. Im not sure we will see SBR lowers sold anymore.

    I liked the idea of buying things as I could afford them. I could also see a day when things are further restricted and having been too young to buy machine guns when they were affordable I would like to buy SBRs now.
    "Real men have always needed to know what time it is so they are at the airfield on time, pumping rounds into savages at the right time, etc. Being able to see such in the dark while light weights were comfy in bed without using a light required luminous material." -Originally Posted by ramairthree

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