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Thread: So you want to go to a Training Course for the first time?

  1. #81
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    Your choice. Both rifles should run fine by themselves, but shit does happen.

    I'd take just one, and the BCG out of the other as a spare. Then when you get home, apply what you learned at the class with the other rifle.
    Sticks

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    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
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  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by drck1000 View Post
    I am taking my first formal class next week, a basic carbine course with RB1. I will be taking two carbines with me, with one as a primary and the other as a backup. Those of you who take two guns with you to classes, do you typically run the backup gun sometime during the class, even if your primary is running just fine?

    Both guns are setup up pretty similarly.

    1) LMT MRP (rifle length), M4s, X300
    2) BCM Ltwt Middy, T-1, G2X in Haley mount

    I believe that they will have a session during the class to zero the guns. Both are currently zeroed, but I will be flying to this class. I am arriving in town a day early and will have time to hit the range to verify zero before the class starts. So I should be GTG in that regard.

    My intention is the LMT to be my primary gun, so I want to get most of the training time with that gun. But I also would like to run the BCM if nothing more than just to see how it runs and if that setup works/feels better.

    Your thoughts on use of a backup gun?

    Thanks! Great thread here with lots of useful information!
    If at all possible ALWAYS take a back up rifle, preferably a clone of your primary rifle. There is no need to run that rifle if your primary is GTG, but if you want to check function during a hard use class there is nothing wrong with that. You might want to simply run your primary on TD1 and your secondary on TD2. Make sure you show up with both guns properly zeroed so that you aren't having to fool with zeroing and you can focus on other things.

  3. #83
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    If you bring a backup gun, make sure that it is zeroed, and zeroed according to the instructor's directions (distance, offset, etc) with the ammo you are shooting in class. I've had a few guys show up with "zeroed" guns that were...not.

    Also, recommend leaving all the lights/lasers/bipods/etc off the gun until you get a good feel for what the instructor is teaching.

    Typos brought to you via Tapatalk and autocorrect.
    Jack Leuba
    Director, Military and Government Sales
    Knight's Armament Company
    jleuba@knightarmco.com

  4. #84
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    [QUOTE=Failure2Stop; / snip

    Also, recommend leaving all the lights/lasers/bipods/etc off the gun until you get a good feel for what the instructor is teaching.

    Typos brought to you via Tapatalk and autocorrect.[/QUOTE]

    What's the reasoning for leaving the light/laser off? I understand the bi-pod, if you're not doing bench shooting it serves no purpose.

    But if you typically have a light/laser on your rifle wouldn't you want the rifle to be "as deployed" in the class?

    Or is it a weight saving issue? Or just not to be "that guy"?

    Appreciate your input F2S, valuable as always.
    OEF X-XI

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sticks View Post
    Your choice. Both rifles should run fine by themselves, but shit does happen.

    I'd take just one, and the BCG out of the other as a spare. Then when you get home, apply what you learned at the class with the other rifle.
    I have a spare BCG for each gun actually, along with misc BCG parts like a spare firing pin. I will probably take one spare BCG just in case.

    Definitely going to run drills that I learn from this class!

    Quote Originally Posted by d90king View Post
    If at all possible ALWAYS take a back up rifle, preferably a clone of your primary rifle. There is no need to run that rifle if your primary is GTG, but if you want to check function during a hard use class there is nothing wrong with that. You might want to simply run your primary on TD1 and your secondary on TD2. Make sure you show up with both guns properly zeroed so that you aren't having to fool with zeroing and you can focus on other things.
    These guns aren't that similar. The LMT is more of a heavy, built like a tank gun and the BCM is a ltwt, built like a fast tank gun. Haha.

    On one hand, I do want to give each gun a trial run during the class to test out the different configurations. On the other hand, it would be good to put one gun through the whole course as a sort of an endurance test. I am sure that both guns will do fine though.

    The AAR's for this course indicated that TD1 is mostly in the classroom with the afternoon on the range and TD2 is where the "heavy duty" shooting begins.

    I've seen where some guys may run an AR on TD1 and maybe an AK or SCAR on TD2. That got me thinking of possibly running two slightly differently set up ARs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Failure2Stop View Post
    If you bring a backup gun, make sure that it is zeroed, and zeroed according to the instructor's directions (distance, offset, etc) with the ammo you are shooting in class. I've had a few guys show up with "zeroed" guns that were...not.

    Also, recommend leaving all the lights/lasers/bipods/etc off the gun until you get a good feel for what the instructor is teaching.

    Typos brought to you via Tapatalk and autocorrect.
    I checked with RB1 and Jason replied that zeroing the gun is a lesson that they will cover during the class and that I would be fine zeroing my guns during the class, but I am still going to zero my guns the day before to help things run smoother.

    I did learn that they will be doing the 50/200m zero, so if nothing gets jostled too bad during the trip over there, I will hopefully be pretty good there. Will hopefully give me more time just to focus on other things while others are zeroing their guns.

    No lasers or bipod on either of my guns. I try to keep them pretty basic. I do have stubby VFG on both and I have been running the LMT with the X300 for a while and recently added the G2X on the BCM. Both can be removed pretty easily though.

    Thanks again for the feedback guys! Feel free to share any other tips. Lots of good information already posted, but there's always something to learn!

  6. #86
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    Thanks for the thread guys. This is a nice read for someone considering proper training. As usual, I find this site priceless in the information one can attain by simply using the search button.

  7. #87
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    random thoughts and comments

    1. make sure you have the minimum skills for the course you are taking. Be honest in yourself assessment of your abilities. If in doubt, contact the instructor/school. Last thing you want to do is show up and be way behind the power curve with the other students. You will either slow the class down and alienate a lot of folks, or may even be asked to leave because you cannot keep up. Most instructors are patient and most students will accept someone who is not as well versed but is working at improvement and not slowing the course down.
    1. NO RELOADS. Dont care how good you are, how careful you are reloading. 9 times out of 10, anytime anyone brought reloads to a course, they had weapons issues which stopped training , which pissed a lot of folks off who also paid to be there. Factory ammo or commercial remanufactured only.
    2. learn frorm others in the class. Yes the instructors are there to teach and you are there to learn from them. but you can also learn from your fellow students. Sometimes through positive outcomes and sometimes through their negative outcomes. You can also see what other gear works and doesnít work. Talk to your fellow students. Share info during the breaks.
    3. Donít buy/bring cheap gear/optics. That 80 dollar T1 clone you bought off of Ebay is an Airsoft optic, not a military grade weapons optic. Itís cheap for a reason. Leave it.
    4. bring appropriate pouches, sling etc. donít show up with a sling that isnít suitable for the type of training you are doing it makes for dangerous weapons handling for starters. Mag pouches/holders/belts. Your Sunday g to meeting leather dress belt wonít work. It isnít stiff enough. Buy some good pouches.
    5. Picking up brass. Forget it. Most courses I have been to donít have the time in them to do that. Consider it gone. Any cleanup is at the end of the day. Donít do shit that slows the class down for everyone else.
    6. Your zero. Have a zeroed weapon before you get there. Confirm and tweak it during the zeroing portion. This isnít the time to see if itís on paper at 25M.
    7. Bring a Leatherman or Gerber multi tool for and adjustments you need to make. Donít screw around with a bullet tip or rim to adjust your scope. Wastes time.
    8. Remember that you are one of 10 or 12 or twenty taking the course. All of you paid the same bucks to be there.
    9. STFU. If asked for comment, go ahead. But otherwise, blend in , be faceless, donít draw attention to yourself. No one wants to hear how you plan on going SF or joining the Marines or becoming a SEAL. Nor, how your best friendís sisterís husbandís uncle was an auxiliary cop in Podunk City and was a ďBlack Ops operatorĒ and shoots one handed between his legs and is a master class USPSA/IDPA etc. shooter.
    10. Get a mag loader for your pistol mags at a minimum. The HKS are great. In a high round count course, your thumbs will take a beating, especially when you are cramming that last round or two in that hi cap mag.
    11. Bring a cooler for water and soft drinks. Whether its hot or cold, you need to hydrate. Water and Gatorade are best. Cold drinks are more palatable and you are more likely to drink them than piss warm water. Soda and energy drinks are not good.
    12. Donít try to bullshit anyone. While there may be beginners there, there are also experienced shooters. You will be identified and labeled immediately if you try to be what you are not. be yourself.
    PS: take the price tags off all the new 511 clothing you just got before the course that you bought to try and make yourself look like a security contractor , on leave for a tune up.
    13. Donít be late. Get there early. Have your gear set up and be ready to go 15 minutes prior to start time at a minimum. Donít be setting up gear and loading magazines while everyone else is doing range prep, target set up etc. yes, you do have to help.
    14. if your instructors did a great job, let them know. If you want help with some particular skill, let them know. Instructors want feedback. Donít leave a course dis-satisfied and not say anything. Give them an opportunity to address any concerns.
    15. Donít mess around with your weapons on or near the line. Donít rack slides; operate actions etc. unless you are given specific commands to do so. Listen to the instructorís commands. Most of these courses are run as hot ranges. If you have never been on a hot range or are uncomfortable on a hot range, you may want to reconsider your choices. Nothing is more disconcerting for an instructor is a student dicking around with a weapon while he or others are downrange either instructing or fixing targets.
    16. Donít go back to your hotel and practice in your room. Youíll find out why!!!
    17. if you go to a course that awards certificates based on performance standards, donít expect to get anything if you didnít pass their tests. Know this going into the course. Just because you paid doesnít entitle you to anything. I have seen shooters attend courses including instructor certification courses and fail to meet the standards and get pissed at the instructors.
    17. Have fun. Everyone there puts their pants on the same way. You are there to learn but have fun also. Shooting is fun. Tactical training is to keep you safe. But, being that steely eyed stone cold ninja stud isnít the way to go.
    18. Donít take yourself too seriously.

  8. #88
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    Good outline!

  9. #89
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    This is a great thread and is a "must read" prior to any training.

    One personal irritant is when folks don't followthe old addage of practice how you fight. What I mean by that, is if your LEO you should be carrying your primary/secondary in a manner that you actually deploy. This also goes for how you carry your extra mags.

    This also goes for when you go to the range for quals or just to fart around.

    Train like your life depends on it...because it does!

  10. #90
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    Second the question about a good class for someone who has only had the basic military qualification course.

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