Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 21 to 30 of 30

Thread: Am I Nuts, Or Am I On To Something?

  1. #21
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    SE FL
    Posts
    14,148
    Feedback Score
    5 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by Failure2Stop View Post
    I have a strong suspicion that Troy changed their front sight wings due to a vocal user base that is more familiar with traditional AR FSB wings, and had difficulty in attempting to center the front sight post in the rear aperture if it is surrounded by a hood.
    That is exactly why they changed it. It just happens that the group-think in this case was right. I would say "...surrounded by a hood with a center that is other than the tip of the front sight post".

    I don't care to "argue" about it either. A front sight post that is not centered in the front sight hood will produce a different POI depending on whether the hood or the tip is centered in the rear aperture. This seems to me to be a basic fact, which could easily be explained diagrammatically.

    If you are able to discern the difference between the two and make use of it, drive on. But the Troy sights, and any other hooded or semi-hooded front sight, where the elevation adjustment is made in the pin at the front sight does not operate the same way as the HK sights (or, from what I can tell, the M249 sights) and does not produce the same results downrange.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    5,795
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhutch View Post
    Nothing new here, that's how International small bore is shot. The only draw back on the AR platform would be that the apertures would be the same size and the sight radius is much short than a small bore rifle.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Agreed. I had hooded front and rear sights on my Anshutz match grade .22, with a circle insert, in the front sight when in high school and college. That set up was dead nuts on. It was aligning a circle (target) within a circle (front sight) within a circle (rear sight).

    When shooting Match grade M1As, I had a National Match hooded rear peep sight with half minute click adjustments. It too, was way more efficient than the standard rear sights, all the way out to 1000M.
    For God and the soldier we adore, In time of danger, not before! The danger passed, and all things righted, God is forgotten and the soldier slighted." - Rudyard Kipling

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    1,187
    Feedback Score
    17 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by Magic_Salad0892 View Post
    PRI makes one.
    I should have clarified - I meant a real fixed FSB, not a folder.

    Quote Originally Posted by rob_s View Post
    The Troy hk-style front sight is not the same thing. In order for this system to work the whole hood needs to move not just the post. In fact if only the post moves it can cause your shots to be off when you center the hood and the post is not centered.

    This is why the original Troy sights were hooded and the newer, improved, sights mimic the FSB with straight wings.
    That's why I prefer a W&E adjustable rear with a fully hooded front - I never move the front post.
    Ken in Illinois

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    FL
    Posts
    9,246
    Feedback Score
    28 (100%)
    I'm not arguing, so I don't think I am breaking my word

    Quote Originally Posted by rob_s View Post
    A front sight post that is not centered in the front sight hood will produce a different POI depending on whether the hood or the tip is centered in the rear aperture.
    Absolutely correct. If the FSP is not in the center of the hood, the shooter must align one or the other, and if he uses anything other than the one he zeroed with, he will definately be off.

    BTW- the M249 has windage and elevation adjustable front sights; that's the only way you can zero two barrels to the same rear sight wihout adjusting the rear sight.

    And with that. . .

    Merry Christmas
    Last edited by Failure2Stop; 12-25-10 at 12:39.
    Jack Leuba
    Director, Military and Government Sales
    Knight's Armament Company
    jleuba@knightarmco.com

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    SE FL
    Posts
    14,148
    Feedback Score
    5 (100%)
    We're on the same page then as far as the mechanics of the way the sights work, and that at least in the case of the HK the sights don't work the same as the Troy. On the 249 does the whole front sight assembly move with the hood and post together or does the post move independently of the hood?

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    FL
    Posts
    9,246
    Feedback Score
    28 (100%)
    249- front sight assembly moves for deflection, post for elevation.
    Jack Leuba
    Director, Military and Government Sales
    Knight's Armament Company
    jleuba@knightarmco.com

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Maine
    Posts
    7,868
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Failure2Stop View Post
    BTW- the M249 has windage and elevation adjustable front sights; that's the only way you can zero two barrels to the same rear sight wihout adjusting the rear sight.
    Now THAT would make me buy an LMT if it could be done.
    We miss you, AC.
    We miss you, ToddG.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    132
    Feedback Score
    0
    Call it luck of the draw, but the top rail of my Troy floater tube is a touch higher than my reciever, so I had to adjust the front sight post down 2 clicks to zero it at 50. It's close enough that the HK style Troy front sight works very well using the circle in circle sight picture for quick close shots. For longer shots focusing on the front sight post puts it right on, but it does cost a fraction of a second to focus on the post. Final conclusion, it works pretty damn well for me.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Northern Command
    Posts
    1,897
    Feedback Score
    2 (100%)
    I have five carbines with Troy flip up BUIS. Three have the circle hooded front sight, two are the M4 style.

    I have found that using the circle/circle for faster close range shooting works well on two of the three carbines so equipped. Unfortunately one was worked on by a less than perfect gunsmith and when he installed the rail I believe the rail and barrel are way off parallel as the rear aperture requires a very large windage adjustment from mechanical zero and the front sight post requires the tallest front sight post then adjusted all the way up so that the tip is very high in the circle. This carbine shoots very high when using the circle/circle sight alignment.

    The other two are very close with circle/circle to their circle/post POI. So for a correctly built carbine, I found the Troy hooded front to be an asset as long as one understands that it will not be as precise is using the post and when the front sight post is close to the center of the front circle, as it should be on a correctly built carbine. If the front sight post requires a large elevation adjustment, as with one if my carbines, it can cause an issue.

    I like the idea of the Centurion diopter style sights and I might actually get a set for my SBR and try them out, as I have a lot of experience with the HK sights on the MP5 and I've been having fun shooting irons recently.

    Cameron

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    53
    Feedback Score
    0
    I don't think you are nuts, so you must be on to something.

    I have some Mo-Jo double diopters on 3 different milsurps, one a Swiss K-31. I find the combo very accurate, my best shot probably being a moving armadillo at about 120 yards.

    Years before when in college I shot smallbore match in ROTC with Rem 40x and Win 52 d rifles with Redfield international sights with douple diopeter, 50' indoor.

    For iron sights a properly set up double diopeter is absolutly the most accurate system, but it must be matched for a specific diameter target. I think it still makes for a quick acquisition system for my old eyes.

    I have a few AR types with the Troy HK style flip up battlesights, and find the shape of the front housing, basically a large round barrel cut off on the top, surrounding the post makes for a quicker front sight acquisition than a standard AR front sight.
    Last edited by jkingrph; 12-27-10 at 16:01.

Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •