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Thread: NFA rifle for self-defense or duty

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by the1911fan View Post
    Thank you!! The only information out of that article that has any relevance to this thread may be:

    You and I know that Class III holders are the ultimate “card carrying good guys and gals.” That particular card says they have been investigated for six months by the Federal government and been found trustworthy to possess machine guns. Unfortunately, most of the public in the jury pool, and most politically motivated prosecutors, don’t know that. Every self-defense shooting I’ve run across with a Class III weapon, however justified, has at the very least ended with the shooter facing a grand jury. Asked what he thinks would have happened if he’d shot Hamilton with a Remington 870 Wingmaster instead, Fadden replies with certainty, “I would have gone home that night. I’ve told dozens of people since, ‘Do not use a Class III weapon for personal defense.”‘ Today, the guns Gary is likely to have in his car have neutral images: an M-1 .30 carbine, and a 10mm Glock 20 pistol.

    I don't know about anyone else, but if I were to choose what tool is most appropriate for the situation based on the possibility of facing grand jury, then maybe I would not bother owning ANY firearms at all. Whether or not Mr. Fadden would have faced a Grand Jury had he used a Remington 870 is nothing more than pure speculation. This is because he DID NOT use an 870. Any scumbag anti-gun lawyer can put a negative spin on any type of firearm that he should choose. There have been individuals who were criminally prosecuted (as in a jury trial) for using a 5-shot revolver in what was clearly self-defense.

    FWIW, I have attended Massad Ayoob's Judicious Use of Lethal Force (about 6 years ago) and have taken a lot of his lessons to heart. But that does not mean that I agree with everything he said (he did mention this case in that class). By the time I actually deploy my SBR, whether or not I might have to face a grand jury will be the least of my worries. JM2CW.
    We must not believe the Evil One when he tells us that there is nothing we can do in the face of violence, injustice and sin. - Pope Francis I

  2. #22
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    I think the use of a SBR in self defense would probably be looked at alot differently that full auto use. Dumping a half mag into someone on auto probably would be looked at as not giving the suspect the chance to survive being shot. There is always the chance of a round missing it's target and hitting something or someone that does need to be shot. With an SBR you could always argue that you used it due to a lower MV, it was less likely to kill the suspect, just stop them. Then you'd have to explain why to double tapped them 4 times .

  3. #23
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    The situation Fadden was in was not typical.

    Most likely most of us who would be in a similar situation or any confrontation outside of being at home or place of business, would be carrying hand guns (at least in my state).

    How often would you be in your car carrying a full auto when something like that occured?)

    Concealed carry permits allow for handguns, not AR15's, SBR's, full auto's or any rifle to be carried unless on the way to and from either hunting, a range, or gunshop. ( although I do know open carry is legal in many states on the books, it doesn't really fly to well with the public or LE)

    So if a legally owned SBR, or a full auto is used to protect ones home and family, I would think the courts and public would view it in a much more favorable way. Just my speculation of course.

    Ken

  4. #24
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    A 'good shooting' is a 'good shooting' regardless if you used a Ruger 22/45 or an AC130.

    If you have no justification for 'deadly force'....................what kind of weapon, caliber, trigger pull weight, sun spots, do you eat meat? etc. may come up.
    Chief Armorer for Elite Shooting Sports in Manassas VA
    Chief Armorer for Corp Arms (FFL 07-08/SOT 02)

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDG View Post
    The situation Fadden was in was not typical.

    Most likely most of us who would be in a similar situation or any confrontation outside of being at home or place of business, would be carrying hand guns (at least in my state).

    How often would you be in your car carrying a full auto when something like that occured?)

    Concealed carry permits allow for handguns, not AR15's, SBR's, full auto's or any rifle to be carried unless on the way to and from either hunting, a range, or gunshop. ( although I do know open carry is legal in many states on the books, it doesn't really fly to well with the public or LE)

    So if a legally owned SBR, or a full auto is used to protect ones home and family, I would think the courts and public would view it in a much more favorable way. Just my speculation of course.

    Ken
    How do you know what my concealed carry permit allows for?

    I think I know of another member here who, in their state, carries a suppressed SBR in the backseat. It might have been a joke though...

    Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball...

  6. #26
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    In are gun safety course for the concealed carry permit, they said we could carry a bazooka as long as it was concealed and I wasn't in a bank, bar, or church.
    Dead men tell no tales!

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuicideHz View Post
    How do you know what my concealed carry permit allows for?
    See my post above. If lethal force is required to protect life, permits don't matter.
    Chief Armorer for Elite Shooting Sports in Manassas VA
    Chief Armorer for Corp Arms (FFL 07-08/SOT 02)

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuicideHz View Post
    How do you know what my concealed carry permit allows for?
    Thats a good question, and I ASSumed it was a handgun permit.

    So I looked at my ccw permit and it says license to carry firearms.

    Then I looked up Pennsylvania firearm code.

    And here is the definition:

    Firearm."
    Any pistol or revolver with a barrel length less than 15 inches, any shotgun with a barrel length less than 18 inches or any rifle with a barrel length less than 16 inches, or any pistol, revolver, rifle or shotgun with an overall length of less than 26 inches. The barrel length of a firearm shall be determined by measuring from the muzzle of the barrel to the face of the closed action, bolt or cylinder, whichever is applicable."

    SO I stand corrected.

    Ken

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by gotm4 View Post
    See my post above. If lethal force is required to protect life, permits don't matter.
    Yeah, if a shoot is justified then it's justified but if you can't legally carry the gun you use, then you couldn't legally kill someone and you will face a wrongful death suit that you WILL lose.

    Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball...

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuicideHz View Post
    Yeah, if a shoot is justified then it's justified but if you can't legally carry the gun you use, then you couldn't legally kill someone and you will face a wrongful death suit that you WILL lose.
    If the shoot is justified (deadly force was needed) and you were carrying illegally, in criminal court the most they could charge you with would be carrying concealed without a permit (usually a misdemeanor). In Civil court the bad guys wife, mom, dad, sister, brother or whatever could sue you with wrongful death.
    Chief Armorer for Elite Shooting Sports in Manassas VA
    Chief Armorer for Corp Arms (FFL 07-08/SOT 02)

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