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Thread: Non-Rotating Trigger and Hammer Pins

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunfighter13 View Post
    If you find some let me know to please.
    KNS still sells the first generation pin sets directly.
    A KNS company representative posted this within the last week or two in a thread on TOS.
    Randall Rausch
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  2. #22
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    Brownells lists both the first and second generation pin sets. While I had ordered the first generation set, I received the second generation set. However, on a 16" carbine with a light barrel and open sights, I don't need a match trigger pull, so I went ahead and installed them. I got them because the hammer pin walked every time I fired the rifle more than a couple rounds.
    NRA Life, SASS#40701, Glock Advanced Armorer
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  3. #23
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    Maybe i have been missing something all of my life here...

    I have seen exactly (and to the best of my knowledge) 7 hammers pins walk in my life. One was on a BATT M4A1, which was way past the end of its service life .
    The other six were on commercial guns. In each case they had a superfluous "match" trigger installed, or they were tinkerers guns.

    If this is such an issue, i'm kinda' sorta' wondreing why it is that i'm not seeing this?

  4. #24
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    Most times when hammer/trigger pins it's because a bad hammer J-spring (for hammer pin walking). Or one leg of the hammer spring isn't on the trigger pin groove (trigger pin walking). The use of lighter springs allows them to walk more easily (less tension on trigger pin). Match triggers may not have strong enough J-spring in the hammer to retain it.

    This is more common in civilian guns (because the wide variety of quality of components). Not so common on military guns because 99% of them use stock components (of a known good quality built to the TDP or better).

    Like I said earlier KNS pins aren't designed as anti-walk, they're designed for anti-rotation. The side effect of anti-rotation of the hammer pin is that it makes for a very consistent trigger pull because the hammer pin isn't rotated and is always in the same spot as the trigger is pulled.

    I don't see a need for anti-walk pins (because I know why pins walk and know how to cure it), but I do see a need for a good consistent trigger.

    For me the two most important things for great shooting are sight alignment (or Aimpoint dot to smelly bearded mans face alignment ) and trigger control. Everything else matters but not as much as those two.
    Chief Armorer for Elite Shooting Sports in Manassas VA
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  5. #25
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    I for one am not saying it's an issue, as I have only the 1 rifle. I suppose you could say it is a "tinkerers" gun, as I put it together myself. The parts were all unused but I do not know where they came from, as I received a box-o-parts and put them together. On this rifle, I can do some dry firing at home, or shooting more than about 10 rounds at the range, the hammer pin will start walking out, not always in the same direction. I put antiwalk pins in it. It does have a standard semiauto fire control group in it, no match trigger setup. I don't know about everyone else's rifle, nor would I say just do it because you can. I am just relating my personal, albeit more limited than many here, experience.
    NRA Life, SASS#40701, Glock Advanced Armorer
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  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pat_Rogers View Post
    Maybe i have been missing something all of my life here...

    I have seen exactly (and to the best of my knowledge) 7 hammers pins walk in my life. One was on a BATT M4A1, which was way past the end of its service life .
    The other six were on commercial guns. In each case they had a superfluous "match" trigger installed, or they were tinkerers guns.

    If this is such an issue, i'm kinda' sorta' wondreing why it is that i'm not seeing this?

    Hey Pat, I have had them walk on me and have seen it a couple times in classes now. Generally speaking it seems to be a problem with lowers that have out of spec pin holes or out of spec pins (or both). The pins that come with hammer or that come in a LPK tend to be cheap and not perfectly round. The JP or KNS pins are perfectly round which does gives the trigger a better feel IMHO.
    An old lower with many many rounds on it can also get worn out pin holes and this can cause it as well.

    I guess I kind of look at them like I do upgrading your extractor and buffer springs from SS to CS. Sure the SS springs will work, but the CS springs will give you better extraction and wear.



    C4

  7. #27
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    Copy Robb. I agree on good triggers, but i keep all of my AR's with stock triggers for obvious reasons- the exception being the gun i used for service rifle competition. I don't shoot that or 3 gun anymore, so no need/ requirement for an aftermarket trigger.
    Truthfully, i'm pretty sure that very few people can shoot upto a good trigger anyway.

    Grant- another reason for people not to buy crappy guns/ parts!

    Thanks for the feedback guys!

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pat_Rogers View Post
    Copy Robb. I agree on good triggers, but i keep all of my AR's with stock triggers for obvious reasons- the exception being the gun i used for service rifle competition. I don't shoot that or 3 gun anymore, so no need/ requirement for an aftermarket trigger.
    Truthfully, i'm pretty sure that very few people can shoot upto a good trigger anyway.

    Grant- another reason for people not to buy crappy guns/ parts!

    Thanks for the feedback guys!

    I understand about the crappy gun parts thing. I would say that this is generally the case, but in my instance, the lower was an LMT. I should say though that this is my primary training lower and has been with me at every single class I have ever taken.



    C4

  9. #29
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    Im curious as to how much wear the rotating pins actually cause to the receiver. How many rounds would I have to shoot before this becomes an issue?
    Last edited by dialM4murder; 08-27-07 at 16:30. Reason: grammer

  10. #30
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    Grant- rough idea of a round count? I've seen M4A1's with ovr 25 k downrange with no aparent issues.

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