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Senior Member
Is the question in regards to what is the ideal DMR generally? What is the ideal for the mil? Or what is the ideal from a personal preference?
Based solely on the DMR class I took, I'd stick with 7.62. What might take a 5.56 4-6 shots to get on target at 600+ yards takes 2-3 shots for 7.62.
From a military perspective the M110 with Leupold 2.5-10x is pretty close to ideal.
Speaking strictly for myself I prefer a FAL with a 3-4x ACOG though the new Leupy CMR2 reticle has me very interested.
Last edited by Gutshot John; 12-31-10 at 21:32.
It is bad policy to fear the resentment of an enemy. -Ethan Allen
Senior Member
Squad Designated Marksman RifleOriginally Posted by wild_wild_wes
My rendition...
Last edited by Turnkey11; 12-31-10 at 23:07.
Senior Member
Not in the Military myself,,but from what I have read & what I have learned from talking with my Son-In-Law,( He had 2 full all expenses paid vacation in the Beautiful MTNs Of Afghanistan),a 308/7.62 MM rifle is nice !! Whatever configuration you want is fine in my book,,,,but I would think the LMT would be a Great choice ! I have M1a's and really like the 18 Inch BBLs,,so I would imagine that in a AR Based Weapon,,that would be about perfect,,but ya could probably get away with a 16 Inch BBL. Sights would be up for grabs I guess,,,,ACOGs are awesome,,but the Fixed power could be a issue possibly,,so a quality variable scope would be probably the best choice !
Senior Member
In this thread feel free to speculate on what the ancient Greeks would call the eidolon of the Designated Marksman rifle: the ideal form it should take.
kaltesherz mentioned above the fact that DM often times are not trained to the highest standards, issued appropriate ammo, given enough range time, or even the proper rifle/optic combo. In this case, perhaps a 5.56 AR with ACOG might be ideal. In fact, the Brits are issuing a 6X ACOG with their new DM rifle, and also the Aussies have just adopted the HK 417 and will use the same optic on it. Still, from my experience, the ACOG is just not good enough glass to squeeze the best performance out of a precision rifle, especially an accurate piece like the Mk12. On the other hand, a 3-9X like the M12 is usually issued with is not much good for the DM when he is functioning as a basic rifleman.
"The secret to happiness is freedom, and the secret to freedom is courage." - Thucydides, c. 410 BC
Senior Member
Mose people don't get this simple but limiting factor.
The SDM is not a sniper, doesn't need a sniper rifle, and doesn't have time to train like a sniper.
Pick an M4/A4 that shoots well, drop an ACOG on it and you have a weapon that is more capable than the training time available makes an average SDM. The M4 Sniper, AKA Recce would be the next step if training time and skill can be increased.
I think the MK12 is too heavy and the scope to big to do the regular infantry job, same goes for a 7.62 rifle. It would make them a liability in close or urban terrain.
Subject Matter Expert
Absolutely correct.
The United States Army trains basic rifle qualification to 300 Meters. That is the common standard, and even then we suck at it.
Not all Soldiers are gun guys. In fact very, very, very few are.
This is one of three M4 carbines built at the USAMU as prototypes (one for the 82nd; one for the 101st; and one remaining at the AMU). 18-inch stainless mid-length with Geissele trigger and Daniel Defense M4-mid rail.
Occam's Razor: the simplest solution is usually the best.
Member
Cool. Is this project going anywhere or is it just a unique range toy for AMU?Absolutely correct.
The United States Army trains basic rifle qualification to 300 Meters. That is the common standard, and even then we suck at it.
Not all Soldiers are gun guys. In fact very, very, very few are.
This is one of three M4 carbines built at the USAMU as prototypes (one for the 82nd; one for the 101st; and one remaining at the AMU). 18-inch stainless mid-length with Geissele trigger and Daniel Defense M4-mid rail.
Occam's Razor: the simplest solution is usually the best.
Subject Matter Expert
AMU's charter is to hot-rod and win, show it to Big Army.
Big Army's program managers are supposed to develop stuff for the Big Army -- it's what gets Colonels promoted to General. They give us stuff like thick BDUs, new PT clothes every few years, and ACU-pattern cammies.
The one in the photo was requested by the 82nd's G3 for the Division Small Arms Master Gunner.
Member
I vote for a 30 caliber weapon, as the purpose is to take out a threat that can't be reached by normal firepower with authority! That M110 looks like a very good system. As was said very common type of the system to M16A2/M4's so anyone could pick it up and use it!
Industry Professional/Moderator
I think that with proper training and equipment an auto-loading 7.62 with one of the new shiny 1-8s solution is the best of the realistically possible.
Unfortunately, to be able to take advantage of the performance increase the individual users will need training. From my experience the training will need to be about a month long, which is not likely given contemporary pre-deployment training schedules.
Lacking this dedicated specialization training, they are probably better off with a Mk12 type option. I carried a SAM-R in OIF 2, and while it was a great shooter, the 20" barrel and A2 stock severely hampered vehicle employment and enclosure clearing. It wasn't a big deal then, as most guys were dragging A4s around, but chopping 2 to 4 inches of barrel and having a collapsible/adjustable stock makes life simpler for the dude lugging it around.
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