Designated Marksman discussion thread

[Magic_Salad0892]

I'm a bit torn on this one.

On one hand. If you just told me I need to be able to make consistent hits out to 600m, I'd say ''**** it. Give me my KAC 11'', with a Short Dot and I'll make it work.''

But if you told me that I'm going to Afghanistan, give me a ****in' KAC SR-25 EMC, with SB (Or Leupold until the SB comes out) 1-8. That's effective 0-800. (or more, IMHO.)

Now. Let's change terms and see what happens. (In my mind.)

As the Russians call them ''Squad Snipers'' I'd assume that they'd have NO need to do CQB shooting, or anything within 90m. So I'd say give me a Mk. 12 with a 2.5-10X sight. **** it, no CQB shooting involved, I want more magnification. 100-800, or so. Stick with 5.56x45mm for ammo compatibility with friends.

For me it would be different than a ''Scout Sniper'' (I bring it up, because the Russians used to issue the Squad Sniper, and Scout Snipers the same gun - Dragunov SVD.) because in my mind ''Scout'' means you'd need to be able to go farther out. In that case..

Accuracy International bolt gun, chamber that bitch in .338 Lapua. 100-2300m or so. (I don't really know, I've never shot it.)

As for 5.56x45mm, or 7.62x51mm. I'd say it depends. If I'm only seeing 600 or so. A 14.5'' chrome lined barrel, in 5.56x45mm should be more than adequate. Take me to 800 or so. Give me a 7.62, for the better BC.

The difference in SDM, and Infantry man, is a good optic. I'm not trying for small groups at 700m.

If I am. Mk. 12 time.

My experience: Range shooting, with mine and other peoples guns, an a brief knowledge of history, along with a lot of reading.

Sorry, no .mil experience for me.

[MTechnik]

I believe something should be said for a something like an SR-25 or similar rifle looking much more like an issued M4 than an M21 would. You really don't want DMRs attracting attention...

[rob_s]

As someone wholly unqualified to weigh in on this discussion, it would be helpful if the participants would share whether their opinions are based on nothing more than COD Black Ops and bench time or actual operational use. The post by kaltesherz was phenomenally informative because it was properly framed in real-world experience.

[wild_wild_wes]

I don't even have the COD experience to inform my opinion! I do have 30 years of AR bench experience, with 4 of that being in the USMC (Air Wing). So yeah it would be good for the contributers to this thread to declare their bone fides.

[C-grunt]

I was issued the 3rd ID sdm rifle for my 2005 tour in iraq. It was accurate out to 600 meters or so and was capable of doing cqb. I'll give a more descriptive post when I get home. Typing on this phone is a pain in the ass.

[GIJew766]

But if you told me that I'm going to Afghanistan, give me a ****in' KAC SR-25 EMC, with SB (Or Leupold until the SB comes out) 1-8. That's effective 0-800. (or more, IMHO.)

I'm surprised no one mentioned the EMC prior to this. As soon as the question was posed, this was the first thought that came to mind. While I've only handled the EMC in the fun store, I can't imagine I could find anything better suited for the role.

My time in the Fleet showed me a few things in terms of the DMs. Being attached to Marine units most of my time in, I saw and heard a lot of conflicting opinions of the M14 DMR. Some of the older guys loved it. Others hated it. What we did find was that, in the event someone was home on R&R, handing over the DMR wasn't as easy as it would have been with something like the SR-25 EMC. Same manual of arms as with the issued M4s, so transition would be a bit simpler. But then again, I was never in the DM role, so I wouldn't really know.

[Slab]

I am just a civilian puke who tries to train as often as he can. I have a buddy who went to a DM school when he was deployed with the Stryker Brigade from Ft. Rich, and it sounded as though the training was minimal. I have to totally agree with Todd.K in that utilizing a familiar platform, and upgrading optics (ACOG) and ammo (if possible?) will allow more emphasis on shooting during the training and less on wep. fam...

While recently at CSAT I was engaging Uncle Paul's steel silhouettes from Sniper Hill out to 600 with an ACOG on top of an AR and was 100% at 500 with shots breaking around the three second mark. At 600 however, 40% while taking much longer (10 sec break times). The only issue I can think of with the ACOG is target I.D? All of the targets I've shot at with an ACOG were thoughtfully placed (think vertically not someone proned out ...) aiding in hits, I'm sure...It would seem these folks might be having to break shots rather quickly, which IMHO is where the ACOG excels…

[Todd.K]

I was an SDM for part of my deployment, OIF2, mainly worked in Baghdad.

Training was a one or two day familiarization with the M14. It spent most of the time in the trunk and I carried my M4/ACOG.

[kjdoski]

I've been VERY impressed with the results we've gotten so far with our Mk17s. The "modular" nature of them makes them a winning choice, IMHO. With the CQB barrel installed, and a 7.62 EoTech, they're still light (only 8-10 pounds, depending on what you hang on it) and handy enough to work inside buildings and vehicles (this is the configuration we use most often). Recoil is considerably heavier than 5.56, as is muzzle blast, but neither are beyond the limits of a moderately trained rifleman to use effectively in CQB. When we shoot the VTAC "1/2, 1/2, 1/2 Drill," most of the guys on my team have no trouble holding solid hits and making the time for 10 rounds in 2.5 seconds from the ready at 5 yards. We also have no trouble at all popping 5" balloons at the 300 yard line with the same set up...

With the standard barrel installed with ELCANs, and using the right ammunition, it's easy for my guys to lay down accurate fire to 600 meters. Further out than that, IMHO, you'd need the long barrel, and a dedicated "precision" optic.

The beauty of the SCAR, in my experience, is it can be reconfigured from the CQB role to the DMR role in 5-10 minutes. We've found that zero-shift from optics switch is basically nill with the EoTechs, and the ELCANs hold close enough for government work - though they're not as "tight" as the EoTechs...

Yes, the SCARs have warts - heat management, operating handle placement and shape/size, and the design of the ambi mag release being the three most common complaints we have - but, overall, I think it's a pretty darned good piece of kit.

Regards,

Kevin

[wild_wild_wes]

I was issued the 3rd ID sdm rifle for my 2005 tour in iraq. It was accurate out to 600 meters or so and was capable of doing cqb. I'll give a more descriptive post when I get home. Typing on this phone is a pain in the ass.

Please do! I'd be interested to hear your opinion of the ACOG in the DM role as opposed to a 3-9X variable.