Designated Marksman discussion thread

**rero360** · 12-31-12, 08:41

I think what he is trying to say is that you get most of your accuracy gains with very little or easy effort, steady position, free floating the barrel, etc. but to get the last bit of accuracy potential requires a lot of work, more money.

Or to put it in other words, the law of diminishing returns.

In the case of the performance differences between the M16 and M27, free floating the barrel gets a lot of improvement, but to get even better (just focusing on the barrel) you would have to switch barrels and go with something from Bartlien, Rock, Hart, etc. etc. not exactly something one is going to be doing.

**Arctic1** · 12-31-12, 08:43

Ok, tracking now.

**montrala** · 12-31-12, 09:00

Originally Posted by rero360

I think what he is trying to say is that you get most of your accuracy gains with very little or easy effort, steady position, free floating the barrel, etc. but to get the last bit of accuracy potential requires a lot of work, more money.

Or to put it in other words, the law of diminishing returns.

In the case of the performance differences between the M16 and M27, free floating the barrel gets a lot of improvement, but to get even better (just focusing on the barrel) you would have to switch barrels and go with something from Bartlien, Rock, Hart, etc. etc. not exactly something one is going to be doing.

This is what I had in mind. Basically it is "Pareto Rule" (aka 80/20 Rule) that applies to most things we do.

**Submariner** · 01-04-15, 19:31

Two year bump from page 9 for a great thread.

**DMR** · 02-02-15, 13:35

Now that we are in the process of converting to the M-4A1's it would be interesting to see the Battle Lab or AMU do a test of a M-4A1 with the SOPMOD Stock, SOPMOD II DD RIS II, low pro gas block and SOPMOD SSF-SOCOM trigger with a Squad Common Optic like scope such as the Leupold Mark 6 1-6x20mm (34mm) M6C1 with CM-RW 5.56 reticle running M855A1 (AB57), MK 318 (AB49) and MK-262 (AA53) ammo. Also include the SureFire SF3P-556-1/2-28 three-prong flash hider and SOCOM556-RC suppressor. Don't forget PEQ-15, Off Set irons and weaponlight. All items listed have approved procurment vehicles, Safety Releases and NSNs assigned so it would be a reletively easy Governmant Owned Technology (GOTS) to procure.

I'm sure that someone has the data, but I would love to see that combo be tested to see the accuracy and lethality out to 600 yards. Many things have changed since we started this thread almost 5 years ago. Run them through the next Master Marksmanship Trainer Course to see how they perform vs a base M-4A1.

**sinister** · 02-02-15, 14:12

Been done a long, long time ago.

The AMU often fields composite teams (rifle shooters, pistol shooters, IPSC shooters, occasionally an airgun or rimfire and shotgun shooter) for international competition.

What used to be Tank, Automotive, and Armaments Command could often be a temporary speed bump -- until you showed them complete test documentation done by SOCOM (Army), Navy (Crane), Picatinny, and industry.

Generic AMU DM Carbine:

These photos are from a few years back of teams competing at Bisley, England:

Armalite mid-length in CQM Course:

Training juniors:

Trainers deploying to Afghanistan:

National Guard competitors:

If it goes bang and it was issued by Uncle Sam we've probably monkeyed with or hot-rodded it.

One of the better places to go to to see what's happening in Army shooting is the Army Reserve: http://armyreservemarksman.info/

**DMR** · 02-02-15, 15:02

I'm tracking Sinister, just no longer able to influance such things. At least not directly, and my indirects lack the imaginaton to even have the discussion most of the time.