Help me to put together a 2011 training schedule

[Skyfire1201]

First, a little about my background. I'm a civilian mainly looking to train for home defense and SHTF scenarios. I've owned and shot handgun and carbines for the last few years, and took two defensive handgun classes with Insights Training and Firearms Academy of Seattle last year. I have a sound grasp of handgun safety and marksman basics, as well as basic carbine operations.

For this year, I want to learn to shoot fast and accurate with carbines. I'd like to build solid fundamentals starting with local training opportunities (WA), and eventually graduate to higher level training offered in out of state facilities.

Here's what I'm thinking about taking:
General Defensive Rifle w/ Insights training, June 25-26.
LAV Carbine 1, Aug 28-29.

Could someone who has taken or conduct these trainings give me some feedback on this plan? Are there too much overlap between the classes such that I'm better off just taking one? Does the sequence make sense?

Thanks and much appreciated.

[GermanSynergy]

Train hard and train often. As long as funds permit, there's no such thing as too many training courses.

[Gutshot John]

There can be too many training courses if that's all the training you're doing.

I find that a course every 3-4 months followed by some solid practice in between to digest any new information is the better way to go.

If you're relatively new to carbines I'd consider EAG as a good way to inculcate the basics. After which a more advanced trainer stressing marksmanship is my suggestion.

[Norone]

Contact Treehopr on here.
I have known and trained with him for years and the classes under his belt and piles of various certs from all kinds of trainers are second to none- I am jealous as hell actually but dont tell him that.
Seek out a good instructor and not just a institution

He and I can suggest:
--Anything with Bennie Cooley but you better hit the Stairmaster first.
Hes in Dilly, Texas at ITI early Feb. I have taught there as an adjunct and its a perfect place for all the variation he will give.
--Anything with Brian Searcy of TigerSwan. GWOC/Treehopr raved about Searcys teaching.

For me alone I want to add:
Matt Burkett and Kyle Lamb.
...and get into some competitions too. Helps augment and its fun as hell.

All the best.

[Hootiewho]

I would add this, although training with the carbine is a lot more fun; the reality of it is very few of us (even LEOs) stateside will ever use a carbine for defensive purposes. Proper trigger control taught on the pistol carries right over to the shotgun, the cabine, and the precision rifle. Manipulations are different, but the mechanics of making you a good shooter can be taught with the handgun for much less expense than on the carbine. If you have to use a firearm for self defense, the odds are significately higher that it will be a handgun you use.

Now, and I am not trying to bust your balls or be a stick in the mud as I enjoy a good carbine class as much as the next guy, it's just something I have come to realize over time; if you are good with a handgun now, 4 more handgun classes with someone good like LAV will make you soooo much better at the years end. Also, you will find you are a much better shooter with other platforms too. To ME, the handgun is the most difficult to shoot, so if you concentrate on improving that which is most difficult, it will make you sooo much better at those things that are less difficult. Also, the distances you employ a handgun are typically shorter than those with a rifle, so you do not have the luxury of distance to make up for blunders. You need to be as proficient as possible at close distances, ie train as much with the handgun as possible. I think 1 carbine course to 3-5 handgun courses is a good ratio to go by for the average guy.

Just something to consider.....

[PieceKeeper]

.....

[Scimitar2]

I am the one hosting the Vickers Carbine 1 class in Okanogan.

In addition to this (and his 1911 Operator course), I am bringing out-

Strategos International
-Strategies of Low Light Engagement Instructor Course

Jason Falla of Red Back 1
-Pistol 1
-Carbine 1

Bennie Cooley
-Advanced Pistol and Rifle

LMS Defense
-Low/No Light Operations
-Vehicle Tactics
-Patrol Rifle
-1 day Pistol
-1 day Carbine
-1 day Medical (all 1 day courses are being run in a 3 day block with a discount offered for anyone that attends all three days)

Email me at swolak@co.okanogan.wa.us to get additional information on any (or all) of the courses. I will also provide additional information to anyone interested in the local area and how to secure reduced rates in the local hotels when attending courses out here.

Last year was the first year I hosted courses out here and it went well. We are a bit out of the way, but have a great range and are bringing out some great training.

Let me know if there are any questions or anything I can help you guys with.

First, a little about my background. I'm a civilian mainly looking to train for home defense and SHTF scenarios. I've owned and shot handgun and carbines for the last few years, and took two defensive handgun classes with Insights Training and Firearms Academy of Seattle last year. I have a sound grasp of handgun safety and marksman basics, as well as basic carbine operations.

For this year, I want to learn to shoot fast and accurate with carbines. I'd like to build solid fundamentals starting with local training opportunities (WA), and eventually graduate to higher level training offered in out of state facilities.

Here's what I'm thinking about taking:
General Defensive Rifle w/ Insights training, June 25-26.
LAV Carbine 1, Aug 28-29.

Could someone who has taken or conduct these trainings give me some feedback on this plan? Are there too much overlap between the classes such that I'm better off just taking one? Does the sequence make sense?

Thanks and much appreciated.

I am not too sure how to awnser your specific questions. I have trained with John Holschen and Nick Collins of Insights and am sure you got a good grounding with them. I have not yet made it to FAS.

What I will say is that while there may be some overlap in the carbine courses you mentioned, each instructor brings different things to the table and I would feel very comfortable attending both of those courses in one year.

The sequence should not matter much. It will mainly be dictated by when the oppertunities are present.

When going into a new "training year" (around here it is in the spring when the snow goes away) I try to figure out a few goals for what I want to accomplish. Then I look at what training oppertunities are out there and what I can afford to attend in order to make those goals.

I am not sure my ramblings helped at all, but if you think of any other questions, please ask and I may be able to shake the cobwebs out and be able to give you some better awnsers.

[Treehopr]

First, a little about my background. I'm a civilian mainly looking to train for home defense and SHTF scenarios. I've owned and shot handgun and carbines for the last few years, and took two defensive handgun classes with Insights Training and Firearms Academy of Seattle last year. I have a sound grasp of handgun safety and marksman basics, as well as basic carbine operations.

For this year, I want to learn to shoot fast and accurate with carbines. I'd like to build solid fundamentals starting with local training opportunities (WA), and eventually graduate to higher level training offered in out of state facilities.

Here's what I'm thinking about taking:
General Defensive Rifle w/ Insights training, June 25-26.
LAV Carbine 1, Aug 28-29.

Could someone who has taken or conduct these trainings give me some feedback on this plan? Are there too much overlap between the classes such that I'm better off just taking one? Does the sequence make sense?

Thanks and much appreciated.

I think your training plan makes perfect sense.

If you've previously taken courses with Insights then staying with them for Carbine makes a lot of sense. I have no direct experience with Insights but hear good things.

LAV is a solid choice as well and I think between the 2 you will probably find what you're looking for.

Of the others on Scimitar2's list that I have personal experience with, I can say that Bennie Cooley and Jason Falla are both top notch. However, the shooting platforms they teach are very different. Bennie is more of an "aggressive bladed" and Jason is more "aggressive squared up"- they both lead to the same place but understand that you will have to modify your shooting platform to get the most out of the class. I have trained with both and learned from both.

Good luck and please let us know how your classes go.

[Skyfire1201]

Thanks everyone for the valuable advice you offered.

For this year, my goal is to further improve my fundamentals: trigger control, stance/natural point of aim, successive followup shots, as well as an introductory modern carbine course to get me started on building carbine skills.

I'm not looking to learn more tactical handgun skills at the moment, since I'm still practicing the skills learned in the last class. I'm looking for an intensive handgun course that help me to really drill, build and solidify fundamental skills. Is there such a course offered in WA this year with one of the instructors named above? I've already signed up for weekly pistol leagues.

One of my general question is: when is an appropriate time to take more advanced classes to learn new skills vs retaking equivalent of past classes to solidify existing skills? Will taking more advanced classes (like tactical handgun) help me to improve my marksmanship or just add a whole new set of skills that I'm unlikely to use?

thanks again

[Skyfire1201]

I think your training plan makes perfect sense.

If you've previously taken courses with Insights then staying with them for Carbine makes a lot of sense. I have no direct experience with Insights but hear good things.

LAV is a solid choice as well and I think between the 2 you will probably find what you're looking for.

Of the others on Scimitar2's list that I have personal experience with, I can say that Bennie Cooley and Jason Falla are both top notch. However, the shooting platforms they teach are very different. Bennie is more of an "aggressive bladed" and Jason is more "aggressive squared up"- they both lead to the same place but understand that you will have to modify your shooting platform to get the most out of the class. I have trained with both and learned from both.

Good luck and please let us know how your classes go.

Treehopr, when you say Bennie and Jason teach different shooting platforms, did you mean carbine or pistol or both? For pistol, I find the isoseles stance (aggressive squared up?) is more natrual for me and helps me to shoot better. I don't know which carbine stance fits me better since I haven't had much experience there.