How deep to conceal carry?

[PieceKeeper]

Notice: I understand this is borderline but I don't want this to get into a concealed vs. open carry discussion. I'd only like to hear from people who conceal carry.


I would like to understand people's reasoning for deep concealment. If you feel that printing as little as possible is necessary, why? Maybe describe experiences you've had with people/LE noticing that now make you ensure concealment.

If there are LEO's here that have an opinion whether it matters if a civilian "shows their hand" accidentally, please chime in.

I normally carry OWB with a coat because the weather here allows or a T-shirt and sometimes I carry IWB but overall, I don't care if my coat doesn't completely cover 100% of the time or if I'm printing a lot and someone notices...yet to happen in a year of carrying. So I'm wondering if there's a solid reason to change my "sloppy" ways.

[vigilant2]

Here it goes, of course this is for Florida. At the required Concealed
Carry class I took the instructor made a point to tell the class of
a permit holder that took their class and received his permit approx
3 months earlier. He stopped at a self-serv gas station at about
1AM pumping gas in his car, another car pulled up to the pump
behind him. His gun was printing at about 5'oclock, the couple in the
car behind him saw this and called the police via cell phone. Police arrived before he was done and of course drew on him and confiscated his gun.
Even though he had the permit, he had to go thru the hassle of
getting an attorney and wait a long time to get his pistol back. The
point was made that he could of lost his permit also.
Another point made in class is that MOST officers are not knowledgeable on carry laws so you want to avoid any chance of
problems with them.
I go to great lengths to make sure I'm not printing for this and other
reasons. I don't want to be asked to leave a store (eg; Walmart) that has a no-gun policy posted just because I printed and someone
noticed. I also don't want a badguy to know I'm carrying because then I lose my biggest advantage, the element of SURPRISE!
IMO, carrying a weapon without the element of surprise makes you a
bigger target and worse off than someone that doesn't carry.
I've had to draw on a knife-weilding punk and know that surprise
was as big a factor in the outcome (him running off, shitting himself)
as was the muzzle of the Colt commander pointing at him.



EDT- I almost forgot, last Monday a close friend of a co-worker was leaving a Longhorn Steakhouse here in West Palm Beach with
his wife and 2 handicapped kids (looks like an easy target ). A car with 4 guys pulls up 2 jump out, one pointing a pistol at him
demanding money or else. He distracts them by asking where they are from, draws on them hits the gunman twice (dead on scene)
hits the other who jumps back into the car and they drive off. Good guy and family safe. This made the local news. Think if he didn't
have the element of surprise on his side.

[Sry0fcr]

Well I think that it depends on where you are and what you're doing. Getting "made" might get someone fired, harassed, and potentially arrested.

[John_Wayne777]

Notice:
I would like to understand people's reasoning for deep concealment. If you feel that printing as little as possible is necessary, why?

...because being caught with a handgun in certain circumstances brings with it life-altering consequences. In those situations even if you can count on 99.99% of the population being so clueless you could stand on the street corner juggling severed baby heads without being noticed, if the odds of needing extremely fast access to the weapon is low enough then it makes sense to use a more invisible form of concealment or a smaller weapon.

Maybe describe experiences you've had with people/LE noticing that now make you ensure concealment.

I've never been spotted to the best of my knowledge...but I take concealment seriously.

I normally carry OWB with a coat because the weather here allows or a T-shirt and sometimes I carry IWB but overall, I don't care if my coat doesn't completely cover 100% of the time or if I'm printing a lot and someone notices...

I care a great deal, and here's why:

You never know who is going to notice that firearm. It could be a reasonable, sane person who sees the gun being carried by a reasonably well-dressed individual and assumes that they are a police officer or someone else legally entitled to carry a firearm and therefore they don't worry about it.

...or it could be some hysterical ninny who will dial 911 and report a lunatic with a gun that's threatening everyone. The officers who respond to such a call for service will treat the situation like there's a lunatic with a gun that is threatening everyone. I don't know about you, but I don't fancy sucking pavement at gunpoint while some nervous rookie has their trembling finger on the trigger of their departmentally issued Glock. I generally prefer to avoid unpleasant interactions with law enforcement whenever possible, as I have neither the time nor inclination to answer a bunch of questions about my legally carried firearm, or to get the "Why do you think you need a gun?" speech from a well-meaning but clueless patrol officer who has been on the job for less than 2 years.

Another larger concern would be situational awareness. I know lots of gun guys have SA that is top notch and impregnable to the point where they can sense a disturbance in the force if a bad guy is within 50 miles of them, but I don't have superpowers. I'm just an ordinary human who is incapable of being completely aware of every person in the Wal-Mart with me at any given time. I can't accurately count all the eyes that are on me or accurately judge which among the herd of humanity is the wolf looking to make a meal of me. If such a being decides to come after me, I would prefer he do so without the knowledge that I am armed.

If I am in what SouthNarc refers to as an unequal initiative encounter, I would prefer that the bad guy is in it with incomplete knowledge so that he can't anticipate that I'm going to pull a gun and shoot him in the face in his attack plan. Let's face it: Finding myself in the middle of a criminal attack with a weapon that is slow to access (concealed access is slow to many) AND that the bad guy knows is there is a pretty ****ing dismal situation which you should avoid as much as it is within your power to do so.

Since I don't know who might see my gun or what complications they may bring into my life if they catch a glimpse of it, I avoid this problem by ensuring that my weapon is as invisible as possible.

So I'm wondering if there's a solid reason to change my "sloppy" ways.

There are many.

Note that those of us who have been concealing a firearm for a while tend to be obsessed with being able to carry more gun as invisibly as possible. There are reasons for this.

[Watrdawg]

OWB or IWB? The way I wear my pants I'd have to buy all larger sizes to carry IWB. Can OWB carry be just as unnoticeable in other than hot summer conditions?

I worry about carrying and being made. For all of the reasons stated by previous posters I believe you should have the element of surprise on your side in the event of a confrontation. I also don't want the total goober to call the police if they notice I'm carrying and I end up face first on the ground trying to explain myself.

[Jay Cunningham]

I would like to understand people's reasoning for deep concealment. If you feel that printing as little as possible is necessary, why? Maybe describe experiences you've had with people/LE noticing that now make you ensure concealment.

To have a more meaningful discussion, we need to understand each others choice of terminology. What do you consider "deep concealment"?

[High Desert]

John Wayne's post covered it very well and those are the reasons I dont want to be "made".

The only thing I would add is that the anti gun hystaria is only going to get worse not better. Even if your personal beliefs allow you to be lax now, it may be future laws in you area may not allow it in the future. Better to get in the habit now.

HD

[ST911]

As Jay notes, "deep concealment" is subject to definition. The term will have dramatically different meaning to a UC dope guy on a buy than regular earth people going to Walmart.

Depth of concealment depends on the total cost:benefit analysis of the situation. With increasing depth comes decreasing accessibility and speed of presentation. Adjust accordingly.

Most folks radically underestimate how functionally "deep" ankle and pocket carry can be, while still maintaining accessibility. Gun options in those carry modes obviously decrease, but smart choices and dedication in training can make up a lot of ground.

There are few places that a J frame or Glock subcompact can't go, and few people that can't carry them effectively with planning and dedication.

[DireWulf]

OP, I would advise you to carry your weapon concealed in a manner that makes it difficult or virtually impossible to print or actually see . That means that you may have to invest in a weapon that conceals more effectively. You may need to change your clothing style. I buy pants one size bigger to comfortably accommodate an IWB holster and mag carrier for my Glock19 and have joined the "Hawaiian shirt mafia". That is to say, I wear button down shirts outside the pants as often as I can. If you're a shirt and tie guy, there are options for that too.

Let's look for a moment at the definition of the word conceal:

"To keep from being seen, found, observed, or discovered."

[Jay Cunningham]

There is a difference between being armed with a handgun and having a handgun available to you.