How deep to conceal carry?

[Watrdawg]

So are we saying that a broad definition of deep concealed carry would be IWB. Notice I said Broad definition.

[rickp]

I don't understand what "deep conceal" means either.

IMO, ensuring you keep the weapon concealed is paramount. For starters in some states it's the law. Also, should a bad situation develop it's important that the threat not know you're armed, and there's a few reasons why this is important. The other big consideration is the panicky civilian. Some don't think that lawful citizens can carry a weapon for lawful self defense. All they see is a guy carrying a weapon and immediately think bad guy. Additionally, god only knows what they tell the 911 operator when they call. This will have a major impact on how the police react when they get to your location. Now this funnels the situation towards having to deal with a LEO, and that's not a good thing either since most of their weapon skills are very scary, so having the possibility of one pointing a gun at me is all the reason I need to avoid the situation.

All this adds up to one thing. Keep your pistol concealed, it's not worth the aggravation of dealing the hero civilian or the under trained cop.

This reminds me of the Army guy that was shot in Costco by police after being reported for carrying a gun.
Anyone know how that ended?

R.

[Appalachian]

Notice: ......I don't care if my coat doesn't completely cover 100% of the time or if I'm printing a lot and someone notices...yet to happen in a year of carrying. So I'm wondering if there's a solid reason to change my "sloppy" ways.

Absolutely. For many of the aforementioned reasons. However, the solution (as with most things) will be a balance of several things focused on what works for YOU. As long as you observe or stick to a few mandatory concepts (weapon caliber and quality must be adequate, must remain concealed at all times, must meet your requirements for time to employ it). All these requirements are determined by you. As cautioned by the others, you cant assume everyone is a reasonable person and you cant assume that all LEOs are "believers" if you do get spotted and called in. And the person that makes the "guy has a gun" 911 call gets the benefit of the doubt, not you.

[Watrdawg]

Now this funnels the situation towards having to deal with a LEO, and that's not a good thing either since most of their weapon skills are very scary, so having the possibility of one pointing a gun at me is all the reason I need to avoid the situation.

All this adds up to one thing. Keep your pistol concealed, it's not worth the aggravation of dealing the hero civilian or the under trained cop.

R.

In 1990 before we had Concealed Carry in NC I was stopped by a State Patrol Officer about 11pm in the middle of nowhere. No lights around except for our headlights, tail lights and his flashing lights. I had a handgun with me laying in an open pistol rug. I put it under my seat behind me. The rug mus have been sticking our behind the seat a bit. When we got back to his car he asked me why I didn't mention the handgun to him. I told him that considering the circumstances, middle of nowhere, completely dark, traffic stop, not knowing his state of mind-how nervous he was I didn't want to mention anything about a handgun and have him go bonkers and draw on me. Thankfully he was pretty understanding and only wrote me a warning ticket.

I worry about LEO's as much as the civilian's blowing things out of proportion. Most are very good at what they do but the newbie is the worry.

[John_Wayne777]

So are we saying that a broad definition of deep concealed carry would be IWB. Notice I said Broad definition.

IWB is, I would argue, normal concealed carry. The vast majority of us who conceal a handgun regularly carry in an IWB holster of some fashion.

Deep concealment would be something like the Smart Carry which essentially means you are carrying the weapon down inside your pants entirely. Normal IWB leaves the grip of the weapon above the belt line available for easy access.

I consider something to be "deep concealment" when it means I have to do more than reach under my shirt to get a grip on the gun.

[DireWulf]

Not to digress, but there are things to be addressed here:

Another point made in class is that MOST officers are not knowledgeable on carry laws so you want to avoid any chance of
problems with them.

As a retired law-enforcement officer I would agree that you want to avoid problems with officers, but I disagree that MOST officers are not knowledgeable on concealed carry. I'm sure that there are states with officers who don't see concealed carry permits often, but to argue that most are not knowledgeable is horse pucky and I'll tell you why. A lot of the stories on the error-net (see what I did there?) about cops not knowing what to do with armed permit holders stem from the actions they take to preserve their safety after years of dealing with the absolute metric shit-ton of people who have said permits and don't have a clue what they're doing, have no training, carry in an unsafe manner, display their firearm, take it somewhere prohibited, etc. The majority of police contacts with permit holders are usually negative in nature.

Examples:
Pulling a permit holder over for DUI and discovering that he's armed.

Perhaps a domestic violence incident at an eatery with an armed permit holder.

How about the assclown on a traffic stop who produced his five shot revolver from a bag on the seat ("Yes, officer. It's right here.") when I asked "I see you have a CCW permit. Are you armed today, sir?" Then actually chuckled upon seeing that I had backpedaled away, drawn and was prepared to shoot him in the face. He no longer has a permit.

The vast majority of citizens who carry concealed never have a problem. The ones who do, in general, have done something to call attention to themselves in a negative way. Like carry in such manner that other people notice their gun. As a police officer, I welcome the thought of people with common sense, proper training and discipline carrying concealed and making use of their Second Amendment right to keep themselves and their families safe from harm. That said, there are times when I would disarm a permit holder, conduct my investigation, write tickets etc. and then hand them their Glock back with the slide locked, mag out and rounds in a ziplock bag. I've had three citizen permit holders file complaints against me for doing the "bullets in a bag" routine. One was issued a ticket for 85mph in a 45mph zone. Another for driving on a DUI revoked license. The last was ticketed for intentionally driving his car into plastic construction-zone barrels in order to knock them down. I don't know about you, but if I had to eventually arrest these people, I'd prefer they be unarmed when I do it as they clearly have little common sense.

[PieceKeeper]

To have a more meaningful discussion, we need to understand each others choice of terminology. What do you consider "deep concealment"?

I guess what I'm asking is if concealment (for example keeping your coat zipped, ensuring the butt of the gun isn't poking out when you're bending over at the grocery store, minimal amount of printing) is absolutely necessary and what people's opinions are one way or the other. Include experiences that have influenced that decision.

I may have been looking at this as "deep concealment" given my perspective and personal lazy concealed carry habbits. Although keeping a piece down under your waistband completely out of sight would be relevant.

Many of the posts have addressed my question though originally poorly asked. My apologies.

[rickp]

It boils down to this, if you're carrying concealed, you need to do what ever it takes to make sure it stays that way as much as possible.

For example, you mentioned bending over and printing. Well instead of bending at the waist, it might be a better idea to bend at the knees, this will not print as much.
There is no need to bury the pistol in 10 layers of clothing but it needs to remain undetected as much as possible.

Concealed carry takes a bit of different thinking. One needs to be aware of how we move and how it will affect the detection of that weapon when we carry it in our favorite concealed carry method. For all new concealed carriers it takes a bit of getting use to.

I would have to agree with Direwulf, a police officers reaction will be a direct result of your actions, most of the time. I'm sure there will be exceptions though.

R.

[HuttoAg96]

It can get damn hot in central Tejas. I carry a 9mm (IWB or OWB depending on what I am wearing) sometimes in as little as an undershirt and t-shirt. That said, I make darn sure that my shirt isn't going to ride up over my weapon and result in a MWAG call to the police. As far as casual printing, I don't really sweat it. At most it looks like a lump if I bend the wrong way, and 99% of society will never notice.

[Jay Cunningham]

Okay, I better understand your thinking now. To me, "deep concealment" means having a pistol on you that could only be detected with a good pat-down. It's not something that you could draw and present to a threat on demand.